BenPalmer

X12 "Reset Names"

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This is more of an FYI to help anyone that brings old plans forward, to help save some frustration.

 

I bring forward lots of old plans...been using Chief Architect since 1999 and have a huge library of plans that I routinely bring forward and modify.  I have version 9.5x still on my computer and keep X8 for conversion of these old plans.  One really helpful tool is 'reset names' within the 'active layer display options' window.  In X12, that option is no longer in that window, which is sad...but, using the help file, realized it has been moved to the 'Default Sets' (formerly 'Annotation Sets'), under 'Layers' -> Define...  I don't understand why it got removed from the window and I miss the quick button that used to be there, and don't like the extra steps, but at least the option is still there. 

 

Hope that helps someone.  Or if someone has a better tip/way, I'm all ears.

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The Active Layer Display Options dialog is designed to give you quick access to your layer information while you are drawing.  As a result, we only put  tools on it that would be the most common and used the most often.  The ability to reset your system layer names doesn't really fit into this category since it would typically be used only once when bringing a legacy plan forward. 

 

The good news is that the Reset Names tool, along with some other less commonly used tools, will appear in the normal Layer Display Options dialog.  There are lots of ways to get to this dialog, and not just through the Defaults Sets dialog.  You can even setup a hotkey or customize your toolbars (if it's not already there) to open it more easily.

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On 1/24/2020 at 4:40 PM, Dermot said:

The good news is that the Reset Names tool, along with some other less commonly used tools, will appear in the normal Layer Display Options dialog.

With the efforts you've invested in trying to clean up the program, consolidate some tools, and make things more consistent and easier to use, I'm really surprised to see you guys move in that direction.  Unless I'm missing something, there are exactly 2 little buttons that are not available in Active Layer Display Options (ALDO) that are available in the normal Layer Display Options (LDO); Reset Layer Names and Delete Unused Layers

 

I for example, use ALDO with all options turned on and have it docked off to the side at all times so that I can easily make any and all of these types of changes on the fly.  Aside from using LDO for purposes of keystroke macros, I would otherwise have no use for it at all.  Honestly, the only reason I see to have 2 separate tools is so that we can customize the buttons that we want displayed in ALDO.  It really seems like a silly limitation to disallow just those 2 buttons.  It's little things like this that make some users want to rip their hair out when working with Chief.  It works like this here, and it also works the same h.....Oh what the %&$#!!   $%&*&^%$%$$@@%&*!!!!  ^&%^$%$^ Chief %&^%$#!!!........

 

....*$#@....there goes another keyboard.   

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Sorry Michael, but I don't agree. 

 

The new "Delete Unused Layers" tool would actually be extremely dangerous in the ALDO.  Let's suppose that you were to select a cad line and see exactly one layer in the ALDO and then you were to accidentally click on this tool.  All of your currently unused layers would be deleted from the plan with no visual feedback that this happened.  It might even take awhile to figure out that they were missing and you might not even realize why.  The amount of bad words that we would hear would be far worse than not being able to find these tools. 

 

Now I'm sure that this would never happen to you because you would never hit a wrong button, but since it happened to at least two people during our internal testing, we figured out that this would be very bad for everyone else.  Having it only in the dialog box makes this new tool much safer.  You will have better feedback when you delete layers and you also have the ability to cancel out of the dialog if you clicked it by mistake.

 

The decisions we make about the user interface are not random.  We actually think about these kinds of things and try to design the program to be as easy to use as we can but also try to make it hard to mess things up.

 

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37 minutes ago, Dermot said:

The decisions we make about the user interface are not random.  We actually think about these kinds of things and try to design the program to be as easy to use as we can but also try to make it hard to mess things up.


I know your decisions  aren’t random.  Wasn’t saying they are.  Just saying that sometimes they seem a bit odd.  You do a lot to try and keep people from making mistakes like this, and I can appreciate that to a certain extwnt.  After you spell out your reasoning on this one for example, it doesn’t bother me quite as much....
 

...Doesn’t really change the fact that some of these little inconsistencies really really confuse, bewilder, and frustrate a lot of users though.   There’s probably no perfect solution, I get it.  Just don’t like the decisions sometimes.

 

P.S.  I’m sure I don’t need to remind you of these things, but there are other solutions as well.  First, those controls could be toggled off by default like some of the other controls are, AND second, you could issue a warning after a person clicks on the tool.  

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Unless it's changed for X12 the ALDO is only in Premier edition. One client recently upgrade from Interiors to get it. 

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Yeah, I feel a little bit like Michael on this one.  It's a little bit annoying to adjust my work flow in the name of 'let's change it so people don't make mistakes and alleviate some support calls.'  While, I can and will adjust, and like/appreciate the reminder and suggestion for the hot key, it does take time to change my habits and search the new way (since it isn't mentioned anywhere besides the help file).

 

I also realize I am in the minority when it comes to the use of 'reset layer names'...most people probably don't even know what it is or what it's purpose is.  I use it quite a bit, so please don't ever eliminate this, like the removal of support for bringing forward legacy files without keeping X8 around 'forever' (i realize i will likely need to eventually go through and bring all legacy files forward...perhaps a batch conversion tool could be created?).  I also don't see that I would ever use the new 'delete unused layers' for the reasons mentioned.  However, I can see some use cases such as emailing plan files to some builders that would easily get confused with all the extra layers (this is rare, as I maybe send a Chief file once every few years...don't like to let that out of my office, so I dumb it down before I send it)

 

What would be helpful is some kind of list of changes to existing work flow ('power user changes'?) and how to quickly adjust to get working again with the least amount of down time.  Similar to Dermot's post on the paste in place change, that was super helpful.  This would sure save some time for those of us that are not beta testing and are doing a hard transition from X11 to X12.

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Actually, I think we should reset the system layer names automatically when you open a legacy plan.  Expecting people to remember to do this just seems like extra work regardless of where the button is.  Maybe we would need a preference though?  There is always someone that doesn't like automatic behavior...

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I would be one of those people who would not have known to reset the layers when opening a legacy plan.  I have quite a few legacy plans, too.  As I think about it because you brought it up in these comments, it seems obvious, but when I'm busy and working and need to pull something up from the past, it doesn't occur to me to think - wait - which version was that done in, do I need to reset layer names?  I just want to get on with my work.

 

I opened the LDO to see what button you were talking about and realize I hadn't really noticed it.  And if I hadn't read this post, I wouldn't have known that it was something I could/should use when I open a legacy plan.  So I opened up a legacy plan from 2005 and tried it out - yep, lots of layers that didn't exist back in 2005 that do now, plus some name changes. 

 

I would probably vote to just do this automatically for legacy plans, but Dermot is probably right that a few people might want a preference to turn this off.  Another option would be to have a dbx upon opening stating "This is a legacy plan.  Would you like to Reset the Layer Names?" with a yes/no right there so nobody has to think about where it is.

 

This also makes me wonder if there are any other things that are recommended to do when converting legacy plans?  If so, maybe those would also be listed in the "This is a legacy plan..." alert dbx upon opening?  Each with a yes/no option.  And if there are multiple things to deal with, an option at the bottom to "Remind Me Later"  or something to that effect and then somewhere in a menu or whatever logical place, an option to "Update Legacy Plan" with those items listed for when the user wants to deal with it.

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Dermot said:

Actually, I think we should reset the system layer names automatically when you open a legacy plan.  Expecting people to remember to do this just seems like extra work regardless of where the button is.  Maybe we would need a preference though?  There is always someone that doesn't like automatic behavior...

 

1 hour ago, Christina_Girerd said:

This also makes me wonder if there are any other things that are recommended to do when converting legacy plans?  If so, maybe those would also be listed in the "This is a legacy plan..." alert dbx upon opening?  Each with a yes/no option.  And if there are multiple things to deal with, an option at the bottom to "Remind Me Later"  or something to that effect and then somewhere in a menu or whatever logical place, an option to "Update Legacy Plan" with those items listed for when the user wants to deal with it.

 

I only reset layer names in legacy plans that had number prefixes, so if there is a way to automate that, great. Which, I guess, demonstrates the need for preferences.  If we go down the automated road (which would be great) I agree, might as well tackle the entire process which includes importing: default sets, default settings, wall definitions, saved views, delete unused layers by choice, not automatic, etc.

 

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On 2/3/2020 at 10:50 AM, Dermot said:

Actually, I think we should reset the system layer names automatically when you open a legacy plan.  Expecting people to remember to do this just seems like extra work regardless of where the button is.  Maybe we would need a preference though?  There is always someone that doesn't like automatic behavior.

This sounds important, can someone explain what "Reset Layer Names" does?  Or why I should do it?  Yes, I searched for it and there was only one answer, this post!!

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It will reset the system provided layer names back to the default names.  It should only be needed if you have manually renamed system layers or if you are bringing forward some very old legacy plans.

 

Also, when you have questions about controls within dialog boxes, you can always just hit F1 or the Help button.

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22 hours ago, wjmdes said:

This sounds important, can someone explain what "Reset Layer Names" does?  Or why I should do it?

 

I personally don't know why it got brought up as something that should be done.  If you don't know exactly WHY you're doing it, then I don't think you should be doing it at all.  Chances are that if you renamed your default layers, then you probably want them to keep them renamed.  Now if your default plan is a mess and you want to clean it all up and start somewhat new...then yes, that might be a good idea. 

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3 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I personally don't know why it got brought up as something that should be done. 

If I only knew what I do now, when I first started using Chief......

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7 hours ago, wjmdes said:

If I only knew what I do now, when I first started using Chief......

Boy...you said a mouthful there! If I could only go back...

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On 2/3/2020 at 10:50 AM, Dermot said:

Actually, I think we should reset the system layer names automatically when you open a legacy plan.  Expecting people to remember to do this just seems like extra work regardless of where the button is.  Maybe we would need a preference though?  There is always someone that doesn't like automatic behavior...

Should the line types be purged & reset or do they always remain the same?

 

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