Why Oh Why Must The Difference Between The Rough Ceiling And The Finish Ceiling Be At Least 1 1/2"?

[Fun2Learn]

 In the Floor defaults or Room dbx ,on the structure tab, why does Chief insist on making the difference between the (E) rough ceiling height and (F) the finish ceiling height be at least 1 /1/2"?    Isn't the "rough ceiling" just the underside of the ceiling or floor joists and the "finish ceiling" the face of the drywall (or whatever finish material you are using?)  I just want to use the typical 1/2" drywall screwed directly to the bottom of the joists!!  Am I misunderstanding something here?

 

Thanks in advance if you can for clear up this "Chief" mystery!

 

Phyllis

[GeneDavis]

Post yer plan, please.

[DavidJPotter]

The finished ceiling is the distance from the finished floor (structural floor plus its covering which is whatever you set it to) and the bottom of the finished ceiling (the as you said, bottom ot the ceiling joists and or upper floor joists).

There is nothing mysterious going on, what is missing is for you to closely confront what your settings are in "Edit - Default Settings -Floor and Framing catagories).

 

The software just operates on out of the box default settings unless you control and set them yourself. Take a good, sober look and then set them up the way that makes sense to you.

 

DJP

[Fun2Learn]

If I try to set my floor structure defaults so that my finished ceiling is 96", chief automatically changes the rough ceiling to 97 1/2". If I then go to change the default rough ceiling to 96 1/2", it changes my finished ceiling to 95"!!!  By your reactions, I am guessing that yours don't do this? Is there some other setting somewhere that I need to set? I have noticed this on all the plans that I have been practicing with, but thought I'd finally ask, "why", since I still can't figure it out.

Thanks,

Phyllis

[Alaskan_Son]

5/8" drywall + 7/8" flooring = 1-1/2". Check the room structure dbx more carefully or...

POST THE PLAN

[Fun2Learn]

Ah ha--- David--I just reread your post and think I may have figured it out: so the finished ceiling is the distance between the floor finish and the underside of the ceiling finish? I was assuming that it would be between the top of the subfloor and the drywall. Ok-Now I get it! However, if the finished floor is set at 7/8" thick and the drywall is 1/2" it is only a 1 3/8" , so I guess they round it up 1/8"   for good measure. So if I decide to change the flooring type I need to  make sure that my heights don't get messed up, etc.

Thanks!

Phyllis

[Fun2Learn]

Thanks to you, too Michael, for clarifying!  I was mainly just thinking of the difference between the underside of the joists and the ceiling surface. Also, I am not used to thinking in terms of measuring between the finished floor and the ceiling for a structural measurement. I am so "old school"--when I learned to draft people were mainly installing wall-to-wall carpeting and sheet vinyl (thank goodness those days are gone!)

Phyllis

[Alaskan_Son]

You're welcome:)

I'm a side note, not sure I mentioned it before, but you will almost always get a near immediate and accurate answer if you learn to post the plan.

[Fun2Learn]

You're welcome:)

I'm a side note, not sure I mentioned it before, but you will almost always get a near immediate and accurate answer if you learn to post the plan.

I guess I figured it was a "generic" kind of question --not necessarily related to my particular plan. (Which it was, but perhaps you all didn't realize it as  you probably assumed I couldn't be that dumb to not know what the finish ceiling height was measuring to, etc...  .) I went back to look at the floor default dbx and looked more closely and I can see that (E) rough ceiling and (F) finish ceiling ARE shown as dimensioned to different floors areas (sub-floor and finish floor respectively), though you have to look closely. I guess I was thinking of them as relative elevations above the subfloor for that level (which would be 0") rather than dimensions off of different parts of the floor.  (I have to explain the reason for my  apparently "stupid" question so you don't all think I am nuts!)   

 

Michael--I did just now go under the "how to post on this forum..." sticky and found your helpful post about how to zip and post  plan files onto this forum. Now that I know how, and know that you all actually want to see the plans, I will try to do so, unless it is an obvious generic type question.  And believe me, I am sure I will have lots more questions! I DO try and figure out the answer myself first--I promise--as I don't want to waste anyone's time!

 

Thanks so much to all of you who take the time to try and help us newbies.

Phyllis

[Alaskan_Son]

I guess I figured it was a "generic" kind of question --not necessarily related to my particular plan. (Which it was, but perhaps you all didn't realize it as  you probably assumed I couldn't be that dumb to not know what the finish ceiling height was measuring to, etc...  .) I went back to look at the floor default dbx and looked more closely and I can see that (E) rough ceiling and (F) finish ceiling ARE shown as dimensioned to different floors areas (sub-floor and finish floor respectively), though you have to look closely. I guess I was thinking of them as relative elevations above the subfloor for that level (which would be 0") rather than dimensions off of different parts of the floor.  (I have to explain the reason for my  apparently "stupid" question so you don't all think I am nuts!)   

 

Michael--I did just now go under the "how to post on this forum..." sticky and found your helpful post about how to zip and post  plan files onto this forum. Now that I know how, and know that you all actually want to see the plans, I will try to do so, unless it is an obvious generic type question.  And believe me, I am sure I will have lots more questions! I DO try and figure out the answer myself first--I promise--as I don't want to waste anyone's time!

 

Thanks so much to all of you who take the time to try and help us newbies.

Phyllis

You know what...thank YOU for being a good sport and for being so receptive. 

[CJSpud]

5/8" dry wall on the ceiling is most common around here but do-it-yourselfers on a budget (or just going cheap) will sometimes put 1/2" on the ceiling.  I live in a county with no building codes so it is possible to see just about anything under the sun if you look hard enough.  Check your local requirements if you have building codes in your (or your project's) location.

[DRAWZILLA]

5/8" dry wall on the ceiling is most common around here but do-it-yourselfers on a budget (or just going cheap) will sometimes put 1/2" on the ceiling.  I live in a county with no building codes so it is possible to see just about anything under the sun if you look hard enough.  Check your local requirements if you have building codes in your (or your project's) location.

 

NO BUILDING CODES!!!!!, are you kidding me? Permits must be easy for you. Oh, how I dream of that. Lucky dog.

[CJSpud]

Perry:

 

My county (Idaho) goes from the Oregon border on the west to the Montana border on the east .... one of Idaho's largest counties .... but I hardly do any work in this county.  Most of my work is in/around two sets of sister cities in Idaho and Washingto .... Lewiston, ID/Clarkston, WA and Moscow, ID/Pullman, WA, all with building codes.  I have also done many designs out in rural areas of ID and WA and some back east.  There are lots of "independent" DIY'ers and I don't have a clue who designs the homes being built by real builders - I think many come right out of plan books and some are "altered" by the contractors on an as needed basis for energy performance. Truss builders usually take care of the roof design for snow as there's very little roof framing that I have seen in this neck of the woods.

[dshall]

Here in the land of fruits and nuts,  I think Perry and Joe will attest to the fact we need an Enviromental Report, FAA approval,  OSHA approval and my grandkids kindergarten teachers approval before we put up a mail box........  most of the time we do not need Coastal Approval for a mail box as long it is less that 2.3 s.f. in area.

[DRAWZILLA]

Isn't Idaho where Chief is? maybe that's why they don't understand some of the things we need to draw a complete structural plan. It's nuts down here and there are a lot of tools we could use.

[dshall]

Isn't Idaho where Chief is? maybe that's why they don't understand some of the things we need to draw a complete structural plan. It's nuts down here and there are a lot of tools we could use.

I have to say P.,  I have seen some of your structural plans,   and they look nice.....  I could learn a thing or two from you.

 

But to CA,  you guys could really take a big jump with us guys drawing structural plans if you were to talk to Perry  and maybe Joey,  (ignore JC)  and get their insight as to what kind of tools would be very useful.

 

I think most of us are more into model building and less into cad work,  and some of this stuff  (labels for boxes and structural members) would really really be a huge time saver for us.  I have a feeling you guys aren't too far away from hitting a home run.

[CJSpud]

CA is headquartered in northern CA ... i.e., Coeur d'Alene, ID .... half of everyone that lives there is from CA ... therefore NCA.  They actually have pretty strict codes there since the Kolifornians brought them with them.  Not much threat for earthquakes, at least not until they have a big one.

[DRAWZILLA]

The really big one will be when Yosemite blows up, that could be the end of everything.

[Alaskan_Son]

The really big one will be when Yosemite blows up, that could be the end of everything.

Yosemite? Or did you mean Yellowstone?

[DRAWZILLA]

Yes I did mean Yellowstone, that's it, Exit stage left. I need food!!!

[ACADuser]

5/8" dry wall on the ceiling is most common around here but do-it-yourselfers on a budget (or just going cheap) will sometimes put 1/2" on the ceiling.  I live in a county with no building codes so it is possible to see just about anything under the sun if you look hard enough.  Check your local requirements if you have building codes in your (or your project's) location.

We use 1/2" Sag Resistant Drywall, at least that is what I spec.

[Fun2Learn]

Here in the land of fruits and nuts,  I think Perry and Joe will attest to the fact we need an Enviromental Report, FAA approval,  OSHA approval and my grandkids kindergarten teachers approval before we put up a mail box........  most of the time we do not need Coastal Approval for a mail box as long it is less that 2.3 s.f. in area.

 Too funny, Scott !! I used to live in San Jose, CA  so I know what you are talking about! 

 

 I don't have a hard time believing that some parts of the country still don't have building codes or building depts. either, for I also lived for a short time in Colorado-- back in the late 70"s and I remember that some areas in the mountains did not have any building codes, or zoning restrictions. (and it unfortunately it resulted in some pretty poorly designed and built condos and cabins up there.. I particularly remember one relatively new condo we rented where you had to turn sideways to squeeze past the sink to get in or out of a bathroom!)  There was a lot of    the "wild west" attitude of, "don't let the government tell me what to do." (I won't mention any of Colorado's  recent controversial measures their voters have approved, as evidence, since we aren't supposed to get political on these boards!!! )

 

 

Phyllis

[dshall]

Here in the land of fruits and nuts, ......

Jeez,  I was just thinking of this and wondering if I was offending anybody,   certainly wasn't intentional,  I think I was going back to the Ewell Gibbons commercials about Grape Nuts.

 

Anyway,  66% of my siblings bat for the "other team",  and some of our best friends are of "The Community"...  so please do  not read anything into this term......  I think I might have to refer to The Great State of California in a different way......  but I do like "fruits and nuts".....  I will think about it.

 

I apologize if anybody was offended.

[DRAWZILLA]

I know what you mean by "Fruits and nuts" , never even thought of it that way b/c I also know what we have to put up with when pulling permits. Those guys somehow to always come up with fruity and nutty codes, and give us very unreasonable ordinances and zoning laws to follow.