CElder Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I'm trying to create one symbol for my standard laundry set. I want it to have a bounding box that is set 5" behind the appliances so they will stop with that much clearance when I butt them up against the wall and 1" to the front for minimum clearance if I ever want to put them in a closet. In the attached plan, the grouping on the left has the individual appliance symbols with a CAD rectangle that shows the perimeter and location of my desired bounding box. In the combined symbol (on the right), the bounding box extends the entire 6" of excess space to the front. I've tried doing an origin offset, like I think it says in the help topic but that doesn't change anything. Can someone help me? washer-dryer.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Attached- inserted cad block from your symbol in to the plan, copied the polyline and positioned it relative to the block. Assinged it a blank line stile, exploded the existing block, then blocked it all together and assigned to the symbol. Not sure why the outline is showing so would need to fiddle a little further with that to see what needs to be done to make the Pline not show as part of the symbol. Likely would place a toilet in plan, then the block from it so I could examine how that is done. It's a start anyway. washer-dryer.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Give this a try Casey. Not so sure everything I had to do should have been necessary. Ran across one bug that I have already reported and has not been fixed and may have found several more but don't have time to send them all in right now. Attached symbol is hopefully a functional workaround. Washer Dryer FL Pair.calibz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Short answer...Use 3D origin offset to move the 3D stuff and create a custom 2D block with an offset empty text box to provide the offset from wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I'm with Mark...I used a CAD box, made it an invisible line and no matter what I do the box appears in the final CAD block. Now Chop used a rich text box...and it works perfectly. So...I'd use a rich text box without any text and shape it to where you need it...explode your current block and then block it all together and name the new block the same as the old and then save it to your library for re-use. Maybe someone can chime in and explain why a cad polyline box won't disappear? Weird... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, SNestor said: Maybe someone can chime in and explain why a cad polyline box won't disappear? Weird... 2D cad blocks do not recognize line styles or colors. The rich text box is something I recently learned from Michael but I still don't understand why the 3D bounding box has no apparent effect on the auto generated 2D cad block. It seems Chief still has a lot more work to do on symbols to make them a little more friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 11 hours ago, Chopsaw said: I still don't understand why the 3D bounding box has no apparent effect on the auto generated 2D cad block. Its because it would render the origin offset useless. What I think it is that we really need if anything is bounding box offsets. They could be extremely problematic though for anyone who doesn't know what they're doing since you could essentially show the 2D block in one place, the 3D geometry in another, and have the bounding box somewhere entirely different. If Chief added this functionality then I think they would also need to add the capability of at least selecting a symbol based on its 2D block location...kinda like we can do with an object's label now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 11 hours ago, Chopsaw said: 2D cad blocks do not recognize line styles or colors. The rich text box is something I recently learned from Michael but I still don't understand why the 3D bounding box has no apparent effect on the auto generated 2D cad block. It seems Chief still has a lot more work to do on symbols to make them a little more friendly. I tried to recreate the block as you did...but, no luck. My snaps end up in the wrong place once I attach the block to the symbol. Can you give me a clue as to what I am doing wrong... Thanks 3D block... 2D block... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, SNestor said: I tried to recreate the block as you did...but, no luck. My snaps end up in the wrong place once I attach the block to the symbol. Can you give me a clue as to what I am doing wrong... Thanks 3D block... 2D block... Steve, The snaps belong to the bounding box and have nothing whatsoever to do with the 2D block. To achieve your desired end, you’ll need to increase the bounding box size. Just remember that when you increase the bounding box though that your essentially telling Chief “I want to see my full symbol geometry when I set the dimensions to these numbers”...so the symbol dimensions in the object’s DBX May not match the actual 3D geometry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 One way to do this is to add a 3D object to the symbol itself (an invisible 5" cube at the back would work) so that the bounding box includes that space automatically. Another option is a set of small (1/16" diameter spheres) at each corner of the desired bounding box. They can be "No Material" or "Transparent" so they won't be visible but will provide the limits for the bounding box. When the symbol is created, those little spheres are included in the symbol definition and set the bounding box size and location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 26 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said: What I think it is that we really need if anything is bounding box offsets. There, that is the ticket. The confusion comes with the new bounding box display in the Symbol DBX that appears to be doing just what you want with the origin offset. But it is just an illusion. Possibly Fixtures would benefit from the "Distance from Wall" setting that Electrical Fixtures have ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 47 minutes ago, Chopsaw said: Possibly Fixtures would benefit from the "Distance from Wall" setting that Electrical Fixtures have ? I like that a lot. Michaels trick with the text box is nice, didn't know that one. Joe that doesn't work, the block is correct but the space is at the front of it, that's where we started. One thing that does work (in part) is to rotate the symbol 180 degrees and resize the bounding box. The depth of the box only changes towards the front. That can give you the offset from the wall but requires rotating the symbol after placement. The other problem is if you are using a schedule the dimensions read the size of the bounding box not the object. (Plan attached) I usually do this sort of thing with a symbol and another object (no material, and/or sunk into the floor) as an architectural block kept in the library) For instance I use that Do that a lot for cabinet fillers for instance so they read correct depth in schedule and don't confuse the installers. washer-dryer_RVS.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Actually, the bounding box size and the 3D origin offsets work fine. You can adjust the bounding box size and set the 3D origin y-offset to -5". That will make it look right in 3D and set it 5" from the back wall. The problem is that the 2D block does not synchronize with the 3D origin offsets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Here's my version with a 5" spacer at the back and a 1" spacer at the front. It's correct in both 2D and 3D with the bounding box the correct size and position. Clothes_Washer_JPC.calibz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 26 minutes ago, MarkMc said: One thing that does work (in part) is to rotate the symbol 180 degrees and resize the bounding box. The depth of the box only changes towards the front. That can give you the offset from the wall but requires rotating the symbol after placement. I had considered that and observed the same problem but the OP requested a front and back offset so there was not a full solution there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 29 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said: The problem is that the 2D block does not synchronize with the 3D origin offsets. Yes it just does not seem right when a 3D program that relies on 2D documentation can't figure out a proper sync. 7 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said: Here's my version with a 5" spacer at the back and a 1" spacer at the front. It's correct in both 2D and 3D with the bounding box the correct size and position. Not quite Joe. Yes you could do a custom 2d cad block but your spacers show up in Vector view. Not your fault by any means but just another chief limitation. If we had general access to "No Material" there would be many more workaround opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, Chopsaw said: Not quite Joe. Yes you could do a custom 2d cad block but your spacers show up in Vector view. OK, so try this one. It uses (2) 1/16" cubes to set the bounding box limits - basically invisible Clothes_Washer_2_JPC.calibz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said: OK, so try this one. It uses (2) 1/16" cubes to set the bounding box limits - basically invisible Much better Joe. However I think the Text box in the Cad Block solution is better than your Idea of adding to the symbol or chiefs original way of a cad line in the Cad Block. It would appear to address the concerns raised. It gives a proper Standard and Vector Illustration and a clean 2d cad block as well as the ability to maintain the correct bounding box and symbol size. A little help from Chief and it could all be a little less complicated for a beginner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownTiger Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Is this even needed with a recessed dryer box, that nearly every builder is using? https://dryerbox.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 3 hours ago, BrownTiger said: Is this even needed with a recessed dryer box, that nearly every builder is using? https://dryerbox.com/ Those are pretty hit and miss in my experience. Everything needs to be absolutely perfect. The dryer needs to have the exhaust duct located just right (get a new dryer and all bets are off), the gas connection needs to be located just right (get a new dryer and all bets are off) and basically needs to be included in that dryer box, and the ducting needs to be hooked up and put together just right and by someone who really knows what they're doing. Anyway, they CAN be effective, but I wouldn't count on them and would still recommend including the gap just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CElder Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 Wow! So many different ways to go about working around. Thanks everyone! I've been so busy, I'm just managing to get back to read all of this. Chopsaw's seemed to be the best for how I want it to look. I clearly have some learning to do because I have figured out how to make my own 3D blocks but can't get any text or other 2D linework to show up in my 2D block (the "W" and "D", for example here). There must be a step in the drawing process that I'm missing when I create my blocks but that will have to wait for another day! Thanks again for the help everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodCole Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 This has been a very interesting topic to follow along with. Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents as well. I agree that a bit more work would be in order to make this process work better. I set the bounding box using two one inch cubes, one for lower left and the other for upper right in a similar fashion to what Joe is doing. Being able to set these cubes to invisible would be a nice feature as well. I set the material to glass, and at this size it is not that big of a deal. I really like Michael's suggestion of having the option to control the offset of the bounding box borders. I would like to add an additional feature as well and that would be to have the option of disabling the insertion feature so that 3D symbols could easily overlap and be set to a common reference point. This would then easily accommodate complex assemblies. That in combination with the replace geometry feature would, for all practical purposes, enable the use of other more powerful 3D modeling tools to provide a kind of instancing feature of complex assemblies within Chief. It seems to me that this topic could stand to be taken up in the suggestions forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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