Editing Line Styles

[dshall]

I was wondering if we could change the line length and spacing from 1/16" to a smaller length like 1/32"?

 

 

[Joe_Carrick]

No, it seems CA has limited those dimensions to 1/16" increments.  It would require a programming change - so you could submit a suggestion but I am doubtful that it would ever get implemented even though is should be easy to do.

[Dermot]

I really hate to point out when Joe is wrong but I will just have to make an exception in this case. 

 

If you want a line style with a segment that is 1/32" long, then just type in 1/32".  The dialog will display it as 1/16" but the program will keep the actual value that you typed in.  You can even type in smaller values such as 1/64" or even 1/128" but the dialog will display these values as 0" (but they will still work!).

 

This is really something we need to fix so that it is less confusing.  It's on our todo list but I can't make any promises on when we will get to it.

[dshall]

37 minutes ago, Dermot said:

I really hate to point out when Joe is wrong but I will just have to make an exception in this case. 

 

If you want a line style with a segment that is 1/32" long, then just type in 1/32".  The dialog will display it as 1/16" but the program will keep the actual value that you typed in.  You can even type in smaller values such as 1/64" or even 1/128" but the dialog will display these values as 0" (but they will still work!).

 

This is really something we need to fix so that it is less confusing.  It's on our todo list but I can't make any promises on when we will get to it.

 

I appreciate the input Dermot,  however I tried it out.  Unless I am doing something wrong,  the 1/16 (tiny dash 1) & the 1/32 (tiny dash 2) looks the same and the 1/64" (tiny dash 3) looks like what the 1/32" should look  like

 

Can anybody confirm what I am saying?

 

tiny dash plan.plan

 

 

[Dermot]

Your "tiny dash 1" is actually 1/32".  If you modify it to be 1/16", it should look correct.  

 

You may have found a bug with the line style management dialog. While I was playing with this, I ran into some strange behavior.  I'm not sure what is going on here but I will look into it further.

[Joe_Carrick]

1 hour ago, Dermot said:

I really hate to point out when Joe is wrong but I will just have to make an exception in this case. 

Only partly - when the dialog doesn't show what is available, confusion abounds.  

Note that I said "It seems ……"

 

10 minutes ago, Dermot said:

You may have found a bug with the line style management dialog.

You think maybe? 

[Dermot]

After spending some more time playing with the line style management dialog, I could not reproduce any problems (other than the previously mentioned problem with the line style editor displaying the sizes rounded to the nearest 1/16").  I think I may have clicked on the wrong line style to modify and got confused by the inaccurate display which may have been what happened with Scott as well.  

 

If any one can reproduce any other problems, then please report them to us.

[Joe_Carrick]

10 minutes ago, Dermot said:

If any one can reproduce any other problems, then please report them to us.

Many times I've asked for a 2D LineStyle creation tool (railroads, insulation, etc) with optional beginning and ending terminators.  The use of just dashes, spaces, text and the limited "Arrows" as terminators is quite restrictive.  

[dshall]

20 minutes ago, Dermot said:

After spending some more time playing with the line style management dialog, I could not reproduce any problems (other than the previously mentioned problem with the line style editor displaying the sizes rounded to the nearest 1/16").  I think I may have clicked on the wrong line style to modify and got confused by the inaccurate display which may have been what happened with Scott as well.  

 

If any one can reproduce any other problems, then please report them to us.

 

I concur.

[glennw]

18 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said:

Many times I've asked for a 2D LineStyle creation tool (railroads, insulation, etc) with optional beginning and ending terminators.  The use of just dashes, spaces, text and the limited "Arrows" as terminators is quite restrictive.

 

Just for those that aren't aware or are interested, it's possible to create 2D graphical linestyles using cad blocks and the Distribution Path tool.

This method may not be 100%, but it's an OK tool to enable creation of graphical 2D linetypes until we get a dedicated tool.

You can create the path and assign a 2D Cad Block - it doesn't have to be a 3D symbol.

This allows for drawing the insulation as long as needed (as well as drawing arcs etc) without the pattern stretching, which is what happens if you just place the block and stretch it.  

Here is a quick insulation one I created very quickly using a standard insulation cad block from the library, in conjunction with a Distribution Path.

 

And another using a Marker with Text (just for demo purposes)

[Dermot]

If you change your Number Style to decimal inches, the dialog will display your values with all the accuracy you need.  It would be nice if the program was smart enough to change the display automatically when the numbers were small like this.

 

[Chopsaw]

1 hour ago, Dermot said:

It would be nice if the program was smart enough to change the display automatically when the numbers were small like this.

 

Or maybe even if the program would allow Number Styles to be saved uniquely for each Dialogue Box with the option of turning that off for those it would confuse much like the "Modify All Layer Sets" toggle in ALDO.

 

Also thanks for the reminder to use decimal inches when in doubt. 

[misterwiley]

Follow up questions on this topic, I like the look of the dashed lines but when I turn on line weights or print preview the dashes go from looking correct to almost a solid line or not spaced the same as I would have liked. I have tried making the line weight 1 or even 0 but when I print that dashed line keeps changing to look almost solid. Anyone else experience something like this when trying to get tiny dashes to show up for printing? For reference the line that I am working with is 14" long and using the 1/2" anno set. All layer and line weights are 1 for this elevation view.

 

[Alaskan_Son]

19 minutes ago, misterwiley said:

I have tried making the line weight 1 or even 0 but when I print that dashed line keeps changing to look almost solid.

 

Line style dash lengths are not affected by line weight.  The dash length is controlled entirely by the line style itself.  Either select a different line style or create a new one. 

[misterwiley]

Hmmm, here is a little video of what happens when I toggle line weights with dashed lines. This is the stock 1/16" dashed line that comes with the program. This is how the line also changes when I toggle print preview. Seems like there is something I'm missing to keep the line from changing when I try to print.

[Dermot]

Just to clarify, line styles will not display accurately on the screen unless line weights are turned on.  If you really want to see how they will look when you print, you might want to turn print preview on.

[Chopsaw]

1 hour ago, Dermot said:

Line styles will not display accurately on the screen unless line weights are turned on.  If you really want to see how they will look when you print, you might want to turn print preview on.

 

I think the question here is how do you print a 1/16" dashed line style as it does not display or print as 1/16" regardless of how you use line weights or print preview.  Mine measure at 1 1/2" + end caps for some reason. Is there a way to scale the line styles or should there be ?

[Chopsaw]

9 hours ago, misterwiley said:

Seems like there is something I'm missing to keep the line from changing when I try to print.

 

Kyle,  I am still trying to figure this out but have just discovered that the reason I have been struggling with this for so long is because I seem to have "Use Layout Line Scaling" turned off by default in my Send to Layout popup DBX.

 

I wonder if there is a plan view setting for that ?  It would seem that there is one some where based on what Dermot has just said.

[Dermot]

My comments about on screen versus what prints is a general comment that I believe applies to all views.  When line weights are turned on, we scale the line styles the same way we would if you were printing the view directly.  When line weights are turned off, we display the line styles to give you a reasonable representation of what the style looks like regardless of your current screen zoom factor.  This allows you to zoom way in or way out and still see that you are using the appropriate line style. 

 

Mr. Wiley showed a cross section view and did not indicate how he was printing the view.  If you print directly from a view, you should get what you see on the screen with print preview turned on.  You can also change some settings in the print dialog which is why it has it's own print preview that should show you what you will get.

 

If you send a view to a layout and then print from there, your view may or may not match the layout depending on a variety of settings.  One important setting is whether or not the view is using the same scale in the layout box that it is using for the on screen display.  If the scales are different, your line styles will not match. 

 

This also depends on other layout specific options like "Use Layout Line Scaling" which can override the view specific settings.  I believe the program will remember your "Use Layout Line Scaling" setting between sessions.  You may have turned it off at some point and not realized that it stayed off.

 

Hopefully, this information is more clear and helps.

 

[Chopsaw]

@Dermot  The only way I can get the consistency you speak of is with my plan view Drawing Sheet Setup at 1:1.  Then a 1/16" dashed line style will actually measure in at 1/16" with line weights or print preview turned on.  And then with "Use Layout Line Scaling" turned on when sent to layout it will actually print at 1/16" regardless of the scale used.

 

The problem is that my Drawing Sheet Setup is only occasionally set to 1:1 since that setting ends up in the Scaling setting of the Send to Layout DBX it is most commonly set at 1/4" = 1' causing the 1/16" dashed line style to display as 3" with line weights or print preview turned on. ( Made an error in my previous posting and measured a stock dashed line style "TinyDash" that I thought was 1/16" but was actually .03125" hence the 1 1/2" measurement.)  So line styles are scaling up proportionally in plan views.  Is there a way to prevent this to avoid confusion ?  I think Mr. Wiley is experiencing the same situation in Section View and it has never made sense to me why this would happen.

[misterwiley]

11 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

The problem is that my Drawing Sheet Setup is only occasionally set to 1:1 since that setting ends up in the Scaling setting of the Send to Layout DBX it is most commonly set at 1/4" = 1' causing the 1/16" dashed line style to display as 3" with line weights or print preview turned on.

 

Yes this is 100% the problem which I'm experiencing. I very rarely have my views sent to layout at 1:1, its usually as Chopsaw said, 1/4"=1' but in my particular case in the cross section elevation example above, I usually send them as 1/2”=1’ scale and have small details that I need appropriate line dashing to be shown. 

 

Chopsaw’s comment is the reason why I can't seem to get any of my dashed lines to show properly or print in the line style I wish it would seem.

[misterwiley]

To get 1/16" dashed lines in a 1/4"=1' layout view it would seem you would have to create a line style with a super small line size and space size, like 1/216 or something. In all views other then printing it would make that line look basically solid which makes it seem like the wrong solution to what we are trying to achieve.

[Dermot]

I'm sorry, but I think you guys have lost me.  As far as I know, the line weight scaling is always correct and I am not aware of any bugs in the program related to this.  The important thing to remember is that the sizes you specify for the line style represent what is actually printed and depend on the current scale of your view.

 

See attached pictures and plan for an example.

 

This plan has a 10' line drawn with a line style setup as 1/4" dashes and 1/4" spaces.  Plan is currently setup to be 1/4" : 1' scale in the Drawing Sheet Setup.  Paper is setup to be 8.5x11 but this does not really matter.  Dashes and spaces are both displayed as 1' when in the plan because of the current plan scale (but only when line weights are turned on or in print preview).  When printed on 8.5x11 paper at scale they will actually be 1/4".  And yes, I did print it out and measure it to verify the accuracy.

 

Layout is setup to be 1" : 1" in Drawing Sheet Setup.  I can't think of any good reasons to setup your layout to be anything different.  Plan view was sent to the layout at 1/4" : 1' scale.  Red dimension lines were drawn in layout and show dashes and spaces are actually 1/4".  If you print out the layout on 8.5x11 paper at scale, the dashes and spaces will be 1/4" as expected.  And yes, I did print it out and measure it to verify the accuracy.

 

Hopefully, this makes sense and helps.

 

line scale.plan

line scale.layout

[micraigl]

On 6/28/2019 at 8:02 AM, glennw said:

 

Just for those that aren't aware or are interested, it's possible to create 2D graphical linestyles using cad blocks and the Distribution Path tool.

This method may not be 100%, but it's an OK tool to enable creation of graphical 2D linetypes until we get a dedicated tool.

You can create the path and assign a 2D Cad Block - it doesn't have to be a 3D symbol.

This allows for drawing the insulation as long as needed (as well as drawing arcs etc) without the pattern stretching, which is what happens if you just place the block and stretch it.  

Here is a quick insulation one I created very quickly using a standard insulation cad block from the library, in conjunction with a Distribution Path.

 

And another using a Marker with Text (just for demo purposes)

New to the forum. Longtime Chief User.

I was looking thru for another topic and found this comment here. I tried your Distribution path for the CAD block and it worked in PLAN view but won't work, or I can't get it to work in any other view. Tried making a CAD detail to put this in and it wouldn't show. It was there, but wouldn't show. The layer it is on was turned on, so not sure why it doesn't show. It also won't make a Distribution path in a Section/ Elevation view either.

Am I missing something? This would be great for the Section views to show the insulation in a larger complicated section view.

[glennw]

Distribution Paths are only available in plan view.

Have you tried Cad>Boxes>Insulation?