Is there still no way to calculate drywall?

[Michael_Gia]

Material list polyline stretched past the midpoint of the walls I want to include is the closest (but no cigar) method out of the box as far as I can tell. 

 

I double check this with room polylines for every room and closet that includes a label for which I have a crude macro in the form of:

“perimeter.round/12*9 + area.round” 

that formula returns square feet for 9 foot ceiling of which I have a similar formula for 8 and 10 foot ceilings. Only because I’m not smart enough to include the “ceiling height” calculation. 

 

I realize that the ruby gurus are probably laughing, and I don’t blame them but shouldn’t Chief have a more straight forward way to calculate drywall?  It’s probably the most basic metric upon which nearly all contractors use to quote on a job. 

[gelbuilding]

The material list gives you all you need plus more.

Generate your material list and you have it all, without the need of any forumulas.

[Michael_Gia]

57 minutes ago, gelbuilding said:

The material list gives you all you need plus more.

Generate your material list and you have it all, without the need of any forumulas.

I’ve tried this with a 10’ x 10’ room and did not get accurate results. 

 

Have you tried this and compared with actually calculating materials manually?

 

I must be doing something wrong because I’ve never been able to get drywall calculated accurately with the materials list. 

[Michael_Gia]

10’x10’ room with 9’ ceiling, you agree should be 460sq.ft. 

 

Material list for the entire floor ofwich there is only this one room, yields 16 sheets of 4’x8’ drywall = 512sq.ft. 

 

So where does the difference come from? 

 

(Also it still boggles the mind that a material list for the room only yields just the ceiling as a calculation for drywall on the room. Why?)

[Francois]

waste factor!

[Michael_Gia]

If it is indeed waste I would much rather have the exact surface area and let me calculate waste. 

 

Has anyone tried this experiment?

Just start a plan with one room 10’ x 10’ interior measurements. Take a material list for drywall. 

[Kbird1]

52 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said:

10’x10’ room with 9’ ceiling, you agree should be 460sq.ft. 

 

Material list for the entire floor ofwich there is only this one room, yields 16 sheets of 4’x8’ drywall = 512sq.ft. 

 

So where does the difference come from? 

 

- Couple of thoughts...... are you 10' x 10' to framing or Drywall? 1" makes a difference to CA , as allows full Sheets, so for example you would have 4 on the Ceiling, plus 3 for each wall. (16 x 32sqft/sheet = 532sqft)  so best to Set Area not count on Drywall and use a macro to get Sheets (count/32)

 

Personally I'd use 10' x 54" Drywall , so 11 sheets ( 10.5 actual ) , can be done in CA ... just don't use the Default Drywall it may = say 12sht due to room size though, their are 8' and 12' x 54" libraries , so I just copied a Set and made a 10' x 54" Library

 

- got Gable Ends? CA adds Drywall on the inside as it uses the Default exterior Wall for Attic Walls , you'd need to change the walltype..

 

[Michael_Gia]

16 minutes ago, solver said:

 

I recently looked at this issue while helping a Home Designer user. 

 

12'x12'x8' structure -- no ceiling. Program calculates 13 sheets instead of 12. 

 

 

I just tried it with a 12’x12’ room including an 8ft ceiling and the material list yielded 18 sheets of 4x8 = 576sq.ft. 

 

If you do do the math it should be 528sq.ft. assuming no waste. Unless Chief calculates for those guys who like to measure once and cut twice? lol 

[Kbird1]

8 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said:

 

I just tried it with a 12’x12’ room including an 8ft ceiling and the material list yielded 18 sheets of 4x8 = 576sq.ft. 

 

If you do do the math it should be 528sq.ft. assuming no waste. Unless Chief calculates for those guys who like to measure once and cut twice? lol 

 

It only allows full sheets , even a 1/2" strip 8' is gonna get a full sheet if needed in the ML as it measures each wall , not allowing for the 1/2" thickness in the corners for sheets already on.

 

[Michael_Gia]

1 minute ago, Kbird1 said:

 

It only allows full sheets , even a 1/2" strip 8' is gonna get a full sheet if needed in the ML as it measures each wall , not allowing for the 1/2" thickness in the corners for sheets already on.

 

So Chief is adding an extra 1-1/2 sheets of 4x8?

[glennw]

Chief calculates drywall height including floor and ceiling finishes (Rough Ceiling Height), so make sure you are including the correct room height in your calculations.

[Kbird1]

8 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said:

So Chief is adding an extra 1-1/2 sheets of 4x8?

 

3 for each wall and 4 1/2 sht for the ceiling right? , so it would allow 18 same as we would as that's what you need to buy in this case....it isn't always that accurate though as the 10' x 10' room proved

[Michael_Gia]

1 minute ago, Kbird1 said:

 

3 for each wall and 4 1/2 sht for the ceiling right? , so it would allow 18 same as we would as that's what you need to buy in this case....it isn't always that accurate though as the 10' x 10' room proved

I suppose you’re right. So is there a way to calculate exact surface area that’s a little more elegant and efficient than my crude polyline labels?  I’d rather be the one calculating waste. Also walk in showers are usually calculated separately so I can order Denshield backer board separately. 

[Kbird1]

27 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said:

I suppose you’re right. So is there a way to calculate exact surface area that’s a little more elegant and efficient than my crude polyline labels?  I’d rather be the one calculating waste. Also walk in showers are usually calculated separately so I can order Denshield backer board separately. 

 

Set the Material to Report Area as I said above ...  in the Material Properties ...are you on X11?

 

 

           this is in the Code Column macro    =(count/32).round            to get the 8' Sheets (4x8=32sq/per)

 

                                                                                                            =(count/45).round           for 10' x 54" drywall with 9' ceiling

 

M.

[Michael_Gia]

Yes, I’m on X11. 

Need to update my profile. 

I’ll try setting material to report “area”, thanks for the tip. 

[Kbird1]

1 minute ago, Michael_Gia said:

Yes, I’m on X11. 

Need to update my profile. 

I’ll try setting material to report “area”, thanks for the tip. 

 

ML Macro and image above is X11 that's why I asked....

[gelbuilding]

Michael, 

I believe CA material list is spot on.

I created a one square metre room with a one metre high ceiling removed the floor lining and made the rough ceiling height one metre.

See results in attached pic.

CA model built with 1 m from lining to lining so all wall (timber frame) internal dimension are 1.02 mm.

So Ca ML calculates 1 wall with 1.02 which is correct, then the two perpendicular walls 1.01 which is also correct and finally the last wall 1.0, which is spot on. 

Though when i inserted formula to return value of internal area I got 1.2 m2 should be 1.02 m2.

That needs to be fixed by CA

[Kbird1]

23 minutes ago, gelbuilding said:

Michael, 

I believe CA material list is spot on.

I created a one square metre room with a one metre high ceiling removed the floor lining and made the rough ceiling height one metre.

See results in attached pic.

CA model built with 1 m from lining to lining so all wall (timber frame) internal dimension are 1.02 mm.

So Ca ML calculates 1 wall with 1.02 which is correct, then the two perpendicular walls 1.01 which is also correct and finally the last wall 1.0, which is spot on. 

Though when i inserted formula to return value of internal area I got 1.2 m2 should be 1.02 m2.

That needs to be fixed by CA

 

It calculates Sqft/Sq/m just fine George , the Issues normally show up when you use Count  (Sheets) not Area , that was why I suggested Michael use Area and then use the Macro to convert to Sheets for better accuracy.

 

Not sure if it still does it used to have an issue with Conc. Block Calcs as it only used Sqft/Sq/m for the Calc. which means the Order was normally short. have not checked in X11 if that has improved.

 

M.

[builtright3]

The most accurate way to count drywall is to do what the installers do and walk thru your floor plan like you would walk thru a house and count the sheets on each wall and ceiling as you were installing it your self. It is very quick and easy that way once you do it a couple of times. I also use Chief to check square footage to make sure I didn't miss anything major. My count is usually about 5 or 10 percent higher than Chief if I counted right. Rather be higher than come up short.

[builtright3]

Didn't Chief at one time have wall paint in the materials list? If they had paint in the square footage that would give you a more accurate count of exact drywall square footage. But of course you would then have to add for your waste which is what Michael is asking for.

 

[Kbird1]

41 minutes ago, builtright3 said:

Didn't Chief at one time have wall paint in the materials list? If they had paint in the square footage that would give you a more accurate count of exact drywall square footage. But of course you would then have to add for your waste which is what Michael is asking for.

 

 

You can add a layer to the Wall definition, 0" thick , of any colour available and it will give you the Square footage , same as it still does for the Ceiling. Of course that sqft is only about 1/3 of what you need assuming Primer/sealer and 2 top coats.

 

However you don't need it for the Drywall as I pointed out above, simply change the Material Properties so it reports Area,(sqft)  not Count ( ie.Sheets) , and if you want the sheets too add the macro to the Walls Component DBX in the Code Column. If you want to add waste eg 10% add it in the Extras column.

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/21359-is-there-still-no-way-to-calculate-drywall/?do=findComment&comment=174501

 

M.

[builtright3]

Thanks Mick!

I have never studied materials list and how they work. I just kind of looked at them from time to time to get information that I needed such as flooring or roofing and drywall but have never figured out how to set them up to work for my needs.

If anyone can direct me to good quality in depth video lesson's I would much appreciate it. I would like to possibly try to tie it in with my estimating system somehow but I need to learn it first.

Thank You

[Kbird1]

33 minutes ago, builtright3 said:

If anyone can direct me to good quality in depth video lesson's I would much appreciate it. I would like to possibly try to tie it in with my estimating system somehow but I need to learn it first.

Thank You

 

We'd all like that the ML is my pet peeve as it was one of the reasons , as a Designer/Builder/GC , I purchased it in the 1st place. With X11 we are finally able to use it more easily , but in the past I didn't trust it either , and I could do it the old fashioned way as quickly....as I felt like I had to double check everything the ML did. It still only Lists EXACTLY whats in the model except for a few Roof Items and Rebar/mesh , the rest and Waste is left for us to add currently, which as you current Spreadsheet will no doubt tell you would be ALOT of work....

 

 

[Chrisb222]

15 hours ago, Michael_Gia said:

Material list polyline stretched past the midpoint of the walls I want to include is the closest (but no cigar) method out of the box as far as I can tell. 

 

I double check this with room polylines for every room and closet that includes a label for which I have a crude macro in the form of:

“perimeter.round/12*9 + area.round” 

that formula returns square feet for 9 foot ceiling of which I have a similar formula for 8 and 10 foot ceilings. Only because I’m not smart enough to include the “ceiling height” calculation. 

 

I realize that the ruby gurus are probably laughing, and I don’t blame them but shouldn’t Chief have a more straight forward way to calculate drywall?  It’s probably the most basic metric upon which nearly all contractors use to quote on a job. 

 

I have my materials and material list programmed to return number of sheets required for an entire house, 5/8" 48"x12' for ceilings, 1/2" 54"x12' for house walls, and 1/2" 48"x12' for garage ceiling and walls. I have to add for waste because the program uses square footage calculate the number of sheets, which does not allow for waste.

 

12 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

got Gable Ends? CA adds Drywall on the inside as it uses the Default exterior Wall for Attic Walls , you'd need to change the walltype..

 

Yes you have to manually change the attic walls which makes me wish for an Attic Wall type in defaults that can be defined with no interior finish.

 

12 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

It only allows full sheets , even a 1/2" strip 8' is gonna get a full sheet if needed in the ML

 

This has not been my experience. In testing how the material list calculates number of sheets, in my tests the program used every scrap to fill in every odd sized space.

[Chrisb222]

8 hours ago, builtright3 said:

The most accurate way to count drywall is to do what the installers do and walk thru your floor plan like you would walk thru a house and count the sheets on each wall and ceiling as you were installing it your self. It is very quick and easy that way once you do it a couple of times. 

 

+1 

 

A drywall man once gave me his sq ft/math formula but it's no better than the method you describe, which was always my method.

 

I use Chief now because I found it to be just as accurate but automatic using my wall definitions/material list.

 

8 hours ago, builtright3 said:

Rather be higher than come up short.

 

Haha, to each their own. I buy from local wholesalers who stock the house, and they won't take returns. I try to buy short and then have my lumber yard fill in at the end. Doesn't always work, right now I need to store two boards in a house that was just hung.