Roof Profiles

[NeilofOZ]

See attached a farmyard style house which I have created for a family member and need some help on pitching the roof which consists of a full perimeter 

"Gull Wing" profile, including hips and gables. The roof profiles have been created, but require some answers as follows:-

 

1.Am missing some cappings and valleys which have been checked, but not shown

2.Not sure if the roof detail to the gable pitched roofs ( 2 ) are correct,  where they intersect to the Gull & Hip roof sections.

3.I require exposed rafters to all decking ( gull wing roofing ) excluding the Gable sections, followed the tutorial but not happening.

 

Regards Neil.   

 

 

Tracey's House Plan.plan

[glennw]

Neil,

 

Do yourself a favour and build the roof auto.

 

 

It is quicker to set it up for auto build than it is to alter the roofs manually.

 

[Kbird1]

9 hours ago, NeilofOZ said:

See attached a farmyard style house which I have created for a family member and need some help on pitching the roof which consists of a full perimeter 

"Gull Wing" profile, including hips and gables. The roof profiles have been created, but require some answers as follows:-

 

1.Am missing some cappings and valleys which have been checked, but not shown

2.Not sure if the roof detail to the gable pitched roofs ( 2 ) are correct,  where they intersect to the Gull & Hip roof sections.

3.I require exposed rafters to all decking ( gull wing roofing ) excluding the Gable sections, followed the tutorial but not happening.

 

Regards Neil.   

 

 

Tracey's House Plan.plan

 

As Glen said it is not too hard to set this Up for Auto Roofs to work ...I did notice some of your roof plane joins don't line up with the Upper Roof Planes by a little, but,

 

1.) missing Caps are the No1 indicator that the Roof Planes are not Joined properly......use the Toolbar Join Tool for that , you need to go around and do it to ALL the Roof Planes, including the two gable sections to the main house Roof. 

 

I normally change the Ridge Cap Default Material to the same as the Roofing Material ( Plan Defaults>Materials) but with Metal Roofing I'd at least use the same Colour.   *** Valleys DON'T show that is mainly used for Materials List info only.

 

2.) Looks ok to me, assuming that is the look you want?, though you could match the fascia heights I think ( use longer overhang or widen that deck/roof)

 

3.) Auto Roofs/AutoFraming is Off so you MUST rebuild the Framing Manually to see it , using the Edit All Roof Planes Tool is one way,  see below.

              ( make sure framing is displayed in the View used too)

 

1.

2.

3.

[glennw]

Thanks Mick - fixed.

[NeilofOZ]

All good fellas.

 

Tried your way with  "auto build roofs" but there was so much editing to do, it had me tied up in knots

so I went back to the manual way and took a bit more care on positioning, angles, heights and pitches. 

 

The tutorial that I was working with, only gave an example of a gull roof building which had gables each

end, it wasn't working with a 4 sided building which had intersecting roofs. 

 

Got the rafters done over the decking, was using the wrong path.

 

Thanks heaps for your help.

 

Regards Neil. 

[SNestor]

I did a video showing how to construct a "Gull Wing" roof automatically...no manual roofs.  I'm not expert...so, maybe someone will chime in and "critique"?  

Hope it helps...

 

 

[NeilofOZ]

Steve,

 

Great video, wish they had that one in the tutorials as the only one I could find was for a simple straight

section finishing at a gable each end. Am gonna have another crack at it your way, just for the experience.

Also, the manipulation of the Railing Walls to a clear opening while maintaining the Room Definition, was

also impressive, as I used Invisible Walls.

 

One question is regarding the roof purlins, ie the battens which support the roof sheeting and fixed on top of the rafters,

where are they mentioned, do we add another layer in the Roof Structure Definition for these, with sizes.

 

Regards Neil.

 

[Michael_Gia]

8 hours ago, SNestor said:

I did a video showing how to construct a "Gull Wing" roof automatically...no manual roofs.  I'm not expert...so, maybe someone will chime in and "critique"?  

Hope it helps...

 

 

You’re videos are really well made!

 

thanks!

[NeilofOZ]

Michael,

 

Got a result as per attached, but still have a couple of small issues:-

1.When using "Auto Rebuilds" the upper roof persisted with an overhang which is not required, the only way I could erase 

   them was to do it manually. You didn't have that problem, but I tried many variations without success as I needed the over

   hangs on the lower roof section.

 

2.The "Railing Walls" you extended into the main building are still evident on my plan, but yours are clear, even making them

    invisible I still get a dotted line.

 

Apart from the above, am pretty happy with what I have, but obviously I still need some refinement.

 

Regards Neil.

Neil's Gullwing Roof.plan

[Kbird1]

2 hours ago, NeilofOZ said:

Michael,

 

Got a result as per attached, but still have a couple of small issues:-

1.When using "Auto Rebuilds" the upper roof persisted with an overhang which is not required, the only way I could erase 

   them was to do it manually. You didn't have that problem, but I tried many variations without success as I needed the over

   hangs on the lower roof section.

 

2.The "Railing Walls" you extended into the main building are still evident on my plan, but yours are clear, even making them

    invisible I still get a dotted line.

 

Apart from the above, am pretty happy with what I have, but obviously I still need some refinement.

 

Regards Neil.

Neil's Gullwing Roof.plan

 

Neil......Steve made the Video , not Michael, he just quoted Steve's post......

 

I don't see either issue in your plan , so either don't understand your 2 comments or are somehow missing them.....perhaps put some RED TEXT and ARROWs in the plan to highlight the issues and repost it , cos as it is I can't really help...will look again in the Morning...

 

M.

[glennw]

If I make the room definition (the decks) other than a Deck, the auto roof builds without the overhang on the top roof.

Not sure why at this stage.

But there is something screwy going on with your default settings.

Maybe check your default floor settings and try and use them.

eg, Why do you have a 600mm ceiling finish?

I'm not saying that is the problem - but it wouldn't hurt to clean things up.

 

[NeilofOZ]

Glenn, 

The issue i had with this house was it was totally elevated above GL, so I used a previous plan which had no

foundations and changed the floor to framed and sheeted construction, the 600 ceiling thickness was a left over,

but the living and deck areas are all set correctly in the "Room Structure" Specification.

You can see there are no posts/bases under the living floor, but as it's an existing house, there's enough detail

showing under of the Deck Areas, which satisfy the 3D look.

 

Mick, 

See attached snip for your info, but from a visual perspective I have achieved what is required and just

made the comment that I had to manually adjust the upper roofs as the "Äuto Build" kept giving me an over

hang of 300 from the main living walls, this was fixed by grabbing the upper roof planes and setting them on

the outer wall line of the livings areas.  The underside detail where the Deck Roof, meets the Upper Roof is

perfect, so I am happy with that. I followed Steve's video over and over and this never eventuated for him.

 

Regards Neil.

[Kbird1]

44 minutes ago, NeilofOZ said:

 

Mick, 

See attached snip for your info, but from a visual perspective I have achieved what is required and just

made the comment that I had to manually adjust the upper roofs as the "Äuto Build" kept giving me an over

hang of 300 from the main living walls, this was fixed by grabbing the upper roof planes and setting them on

the outer wall line of the livings areas.  The underside detail where the Deck Roof, meets the Upper Roof is

perfect, so I am happy with that. I followed Steve's video over and over and this never eventuated for him

 

Well that explains it .....you posted the Fixed Plan ..........  so even with the In from Baseline set for the Upper pitch at 1800mm , it was jumping backout to 1500mm?

 

[NeilofOZ]

Mick,

 

Only have only one issue left, roof battens or as we say purlins, which are attached to the rafters and

support the roof sheeting. These should be seen in 3D under the decking roof sheeting. 

 

Don't see anywhere in "Roof Layers", where these are mentioned or allocated. 

 

Neil.

[Kbird1]

On 2/1/2019 at 11:05 PM, NeilofOZ said:

Mick,

 

Only have only one issue left, roof battens or as we say purlins, which are attached to the rafters and

support the roof sheeting. These should be seen in 3D under the decking roof sheeting. 

 

Don't see anywhere in "Roof Layers", where these are mentioned or allocated. 

 

Neil.

 

Purlins are not Automatic in CA , I usually add a Layer to The Roof Structure, ( use opening no material - as a Roof can't have two framing layers) , above the Rafter eg 40-50mm depending on whats needed, then in Cross Sections I add CAD  Cross Boxes as needed.

 

Or you can do them manually with Framing, inserting then in the space created above, Some use the Auto Lookouts for this, raising them up and then extending them the entire length of the Roof. With Multiple Copy its not too bad if you really need a 3D framing view or they maybe exposed underneath in some areas like Porches and you want to show them.

 

There are a number of threads on Purlins and how to accomplish them ....

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/15872-pole-barn-metal-roof-purlin/?do=findComment&comment=133546

and Michael's Video : https://youtu.be/topft3rOOa4

 

Other threads on Purlins on the Forum

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/search/?q=Roof purlins&type=forums_topic&sortby=relevancy&search_and_or=and

 

This is one I did recently.......the Roofing Was Corrugated Clear Acrylic over this Section to allow more Natural Light ( no budget for Glass)

 

[Ridge_Runner]

9 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

Some use the Auto Lookouts for this, raising them up and then extending them the entire length of the Roof.

I have done this for several jobs. Works pretty good and does have the benefit of showing correctly in 3D views and cross sections. If design changes, these have to be reworked also. Not too much trouble but does take time. Then again, changes don't happen very often, right? 

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, Ridge_Runner said:

I have done this for several jobs. Works pretty good and does have the benefit of showing correctly in 3D views and cross sections. If design changes, these have to be reworked also. Not too much trouble but does take time. Then again, changes don't happen very often, right? 

 

They do have a nasty habit of "losing" there height etc if any changes are made to the Roof Plane , so definitely advisable to do as late in the Project as possible, ( if you rebuild the Roof they will disappear , so if you need to do this marquee select them all and make a transform replicate Copy off to the side and then reverse the move afterwards.)

You can Marquee select them all , open the DBX and close it and they will (with luck) reset, but it doesn't always work,though haven't come across a fullproof method to stop or fix the orientation issue they sometimes have yet.

 

The Tip in the Video to make a Library Purlin , from the 2nd Layer of the Roof Structure, temporarily set to Framing works well, due to it "remembering" it was above the Rafter in that 2nd layer, which means not having to futz with raising the STD lookouts ( again if they reset there orientation especially). Make a single one and a group of 2 or 4 for larger areas.

 

Had hoped we would get these Auto in the next version actually.....

[NeilofOZ]

Thanks Fellas,

 

Had a suspicion that CA didn't have this element in their roof structure, was going to do this manually 

by setting them up as polyline solids in cross section, then elongating them on plan. 

Think I will put  this one in the hard basket and attack again when time available as house is existing.

 

Regards Neil. 

[Kbird1]

14 minutes ago, NeilofOZ said:

Thanks Fellas,

 

Had a suspicion that CA didn't have this element in their roof structure, was going to do this manually 

by setting them up as polyline solids in cross section, then elongating them on plan. 

Think I will put  this one in the hard basket and attack again when time available as house is existing.

 

Regards Neil. 

 

The Looks outs method doesn't take too long and isn't that hard , just do a quick 20x30 m Box with two gable ends and have a play.... the Test house will give you the Lookouts for the Library in about 6mins....

 

M.

[Kbird1]

On 2/2/2019 at 5:11 PM, Kbird1 said:

 

The Looks outs method doesn't take too long and isn't that hard , just do a quick 20x30 m Box with two gable ends and have a play.... the Test house will give you the Lookouts for the Library in about 6mins....

 

M.

 

Okay 6 minutes cos I've done it before     , so 20mins if you watch Micheal's Video above 1st.

 

 

Here's the Plan with a Purlin or two to save to your Library and some on the other side of the Roof to play with....

 

**Roof Purlins now completed for building.

 

 

MHD_Purlins _Full_Setup Plan.plan

 

****Edit ..if you download this plan you will likely find the Purlins Rotated "flat" , you will need to select them all using Match Properties and Open the DBX , hit Ok and they will Reset. ( no known fix at this point) see 4 posts down.)

 

*** The  Problem and Fix is in this Post.

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/20877-roof-profiles/?do=findComment&comment=172239

 

[NeilofOZ]

Yep, you guys make it look so simple, like watching a brickie lay bricks then he hands the trowel to you

and you end up looking like an ass, with crap all over the place, lol.

 

Am currently trying to change decking planks direction, had about 10 goes, been through videos half

a dozen times, do exactly what the man says and no change, yeah here is me 75 years first time cad

user, but persisting because it's something I wanted to do for years. 

 

I need you guys to be patient, hold my hands and lead me to the promised land, lol. 

 

Regards to all.

[Alaskan_Son]

Just a side note here, but if you use trusses, you can simply make them all Reduced Gable trusses and then manually drag an automatically generated lookout right over the top of all of them.  

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, NeilofOZ said:

Yep, you guys make it look so simple, like watching a brickie lay bricks then he hands the trowel to you

and you end up looking like an ass, with crap all over the place, lol.

 

Am currently trying to change decking planks direction, had about 10 goes, been through videos half

a dozen times, do exactly what the man says and no change, yeah here is me 75 years first time cad

user, but persisting because it's something I wanted to do for years. 

 

I need you guys to be patient, hold my hands and lead me to the promised land, lol. 

 

Regards to all.

 

It's just Practice and playing around ...like most things.... was just trying to show/say , it's not quite as difficult as you think... will take you an hour of two if you wanted to do the whole house but that isn't always needed ,especially if you only need a few Crossections , just place the Premade Purlin so it's seen in the Section View and you are good to go , or a few over a Section of the Deck for Client Views etc.

 

As for the Decking , assuming you want it to all run parallel to the house you will need to use Room Dividers to split the 2 U (C?) shaped deck rooms into 3 pieces each. Then you can Rotate each section independently, if needed , as drawing the Room Dividers may cause the planks to change direction auto, due to the Automatic Plank Direction Setting.

 

*** yep that's what happened on all four Corners.....looks like you have two different sized Planks at each end and back vs Front though. ( yes 75mm LH and 138mm RH)

 

M.

 

[Kbird1]

On 2/2/2019 at 1:34 PM, Kbird1 said:

You can Marquee select them all , open the DBX and close it and they will (with luck) reset, but it doesn't always work,though haven't come across a fullproof method to stop or fix the orientation issue they sometimes have yet.

 

Was playing with My posted plan above today and just about any change to the roof , including doing a Plan Undo, will cause the Purlins to rotate out of position, once it happens Undo and Redo won't fix it, and I  haven't figured how to stop that, but the "Fix" is relatively easy , in Plan View (2D) ,select one and using the Match Properties Tool > Rafter lookout ( name or Object Type ) you can easily select the whole lot and then simply open the DBX and click OK........closing it is enough to reset them to the Roof Slope.

 

the Worst Part of this is that Saving the Plan and Reopening it , is enough to cause the Purlins to Rotate "flat" in all Views

 

**Plan above updated to full Building

 

M.

 

*** 

*** The  Problem and Fix is in this Post.

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/20877-roof-profiles/?do=findComment&comment=172239

[NeilofOZ]

Mick,

 

Regarding the deck planking, already tried the things you suggested over the weekend including isolating the deck areas, change all planking to a

common size, turning auto off & on, changing plank direction, changing material direction, changing the planking in defaults, etc etc etc and no deal, so 

something is still missing, it shouldn't be this difficult for a simple task, virtually spent a half day trying to get this right in accordance with several

videos and User Guide.

 

See my latest Floor Plan

 

Neil.

Tracey's House Plan-Decking.plan