madcowscarnival

change height of single room

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Is it possible to change the height of a single room using automatic tools and not reverting to custom ceiling planes?  The main structure is 9' ceilings, the living room needs to be 12' clipped in to the rafters on one side.  I feel certain I've successfully accomplished this before but completely in the interior of the house (not at exterior wall). 

 

Is the exterior wall causing the whole floor to be built at the living room height?

 

Can this be specified with roof build, or does it need to be "tricked" with an invisible wall and ceiling plane?

 

Thanks folks and Merry Christmas, there isn't a rush, just learning.

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When you open the room specifications box for a single room you can adjust the room height for that room alone under the structures tab but you will need to rebuild or adjust your roof if it was already built.

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Not sure why if setting the height in one room the whole floor is changing?.....are you sure you are changing just the one room's ceiling height? not the Floor's default height?

 

You may need to check ...same roof height at exterior Wall on the Build Roof DBX or one of the other Options depending on the situation or even turn Auto Roof Rebuild Off and then change the one Rooms' Ceiling height.

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Questions like these are far easier to answer when pictures/drawings/plan are posted.

 

I'll guess and suggest that to use auto build roofs, you will need to define a room between the outside wall and the point where the flat 12' ceiling begins. It will have a 9' ceiling, and have Ceiling Over This Room unchecked.

 

Put the wall dividing the 2 spaces on its own layer so you can turn its display on or off.

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I think it would be best for you to take the time to learn how to properly draw manual roof planes.  For two reasons:

For complex roofs, often times it can take just as much time and even more frustration to tweak all the conditions right for it to build, and then sometimes it needs manual tweaks after.

Also, splitting a room into two for different ceiling heights, or other similar tricks to fool chief into building the right roof, can affect your plan in other ways.  Room schedules and auto room naming are the first to come to mind.  For a program that costs nearly $3000 US, it makes sense to invest your time to really understand how the tools you use actually work.

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It makes sense to invest your time to really understand how the tools you use actually work.

 

learning how to do auto gen roofs is learning how the tools work

 

according to my Intermediate Chief instructor "any" roof can be done with the auto gen tool

 

he then illustrated with a very large Victorian Hospital with lots of turrets and other "fun" roof features

all built with the auto-roof gen

 

I personally believe there are probably some situations that do require using manual roof tools

and to be a true master of Chief they should be learned also

 

neither set of tools should be ignored ...

 

Lew

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, KervinHomeDesign said:

I think it would be best for you to take the time to learn how to properly draw manual roof planes.  For two reasons:

For complex roofs, often times it can take just as much time and even more frustration to tweak all the conditions right for it to build, and then sometimes it needs manual tweaks after.

Also, splitting a room into two for different ceiling heights, or other similar tricks to fool chief into building the right roof, can affect your plan in other ways.  Room schedules and auto room naming are the first to come to mind.  For a program that costs nearly $3000 US, it makes sense to invest your time to really understand how the tools you use actually work.

 

This is very good advice.  The roof doesn't even have to be "complex" to justify a manual roof either. Here's a quick example with a single rectangular roof plane.

 

1 hour of free consultation or training to the first person who can do this with the auto roof tools...and an additional hour if you can do it in under 5 minutes (probably twice as long as it took me to draw this entire plan)...

Plan.thumb.jpg.577455b7e70900edf9a25fd0db7c62af.jpg482530563_3D2.thumb.jpg.d0c90633843cfda0449b8fc4c66f20e5.jpg1992284427_3D1.thumb.jpg.43352286f79389e78eaa4c29aed70d56.jpg

Plan.plan

 

Shoot, I doubt anyone would be able to do it in under an hour with the auto roof tools, in fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if no one was able to do it period.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

This is very good advice.  The roof doesn't even have to be "complex" to justify a manual roof either. Here's a quick example with a single rectangular roof plane.

 

1 hour of free consultation or training to the first person who can do this with the auto roof tools...and an additional hour if you can do it in under 5 minutes (probably twice as long as it took me to draw this entire plan)...

Plan.thumb.jpg.577455b7e70900edf9a25fd0db7c62af.jpg482530563_3D2.thumb.jpg.d0c90633843cfda0449b8fc4c66f20e5.jpg1992284427_3D1.thumb.jpg.43352286f79389e78eaa4c29aed70d56.jpg

Plan.plan

 

Shoot, I doubt anyone would be able to do it in under an hour with the auto roof tools, in fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if no one was able to do it period.

 

 

 

It's do-able with a few invisible walls and an angled wall to control the Roof slope (need to delete it later) but it will definitely take longer than a manual Roof plane (3 mins?)  as you'll need to change every Wall's Roof Directive to make it work properly eg to Gable or High Shed ....

 

image.thumb.png.6cc52e09168419e0e266ea8d5a9a4c6d.png

 

Plan_1_MHD.plan

 

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1 hour ago, Kbird1 said:

 

It's do-able with a few invisible walls and an angled wall to control the Roof slope (need to delete it later) but it will definitely take longer than a manual Roof plane (3 mins?)  as you'll need to change every Wall's Roof Directive to make it work properly eg to Gable or High Shed ....

 

image.thumb.png.6cc52e09168419e0e266ea8d5a9a4c6d.png

 

Plan_1_MHD.plan

 

I give you an A for effort, but I'm afraid your example isn't following the spirit of the rules and it still has problems. 

 

  • For one thing, it required extra room definitions in that deck area that I don't want for various reasons (this one is forgivable in this particular example but wouldn't be in others). 
  • Second, if you turn auto rebuild back on you'll see that a small extra roof plane is being generated in that back right corner of the house. 
  • Third, it requires an extra wall INSIDE the house as well as a couple modified exterior wall sections and a modified room definition (something that may not even be possible in some plans without totally screwing up the model).
  • And fourth, it requires turning auto roofs off and cleaning up the plans. 

The first infraction can be looked past, but I'd say the last 3 can't.  If you have to fundamentally change the plan by adding walls and changing room definitions, and then turn auto off and clean up walls, extra roof planes, and room definitions, I don't think that really qualifies as just using auto roofs.  What do you think?

 

Also, I'm curious...how long did that actually take you from the time you opened my plan to the time you arrived at your end result?  I don't mean how long it would take to repeat, I'm talking about how long it took to figure out and fully configure the first time. 

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Michael,

I will post the plan tomorrow if I get a chance.This is an auto roof using the Auto Rebuild Roofs command.

No extra walls or rooms inside or outside.

Auto Rebuild Roofs can stay on.

No cleaning up afterwards.

(I wonder how many rules there are?)

 

New Image_26.jpg

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(I wonder how many rules there are?)

 

Glenn:

 

just before I retired in 2012 I was making a spreadsheet for each of CA's auto-roof videos 

for the 36+  auto-gen roof types that could be done 

 

it was coming down to a common set of parameters in a few of the dbx's

 

I'm sure there are many more styles than what CA had covered in the videos

and more since 2012.

 

if anyone is interested is following up on this study I think i still have my hand-written notes

and the start of the spreadsheet

 

Lew

 

 

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22 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I give you an A for effort, but I'm afraid your example isn't following the spirit of the rules and it still has problems. 

 

  • For one thing, it required extra room definitions in that deck area that I don't want for various reasons (this one is forgivable in this particular example but wouldn't be in others). 
  • Second, if you turn auto rebuild back on you'll see that a small extra roof plane is being generated in that back right corner of the house. 
  • Third, it requires an extra wall INSIDE the house as well as a couple modified exterior wall sections and a modified room definition (something that may not even be possible in some plans without totally screwing up the model).
  • And fourth, it requires turning auto roofs off and cleaning up the plans. 

The first infraction can be looked past, but I'd say the last 3 can't.  If you have to fundamentally change the plan by adding walls and changing room definitions, and then turn auto off and clean up walls, extra roof planes, and room definitions, I don't think that really qualifies as just using auto roofs.  What do you think?

 

Also, I'm curious...how long did that actually take you from the time you opened my plan to the time you arrived at your end result?  I don't mean how long it would take to repeat, I'm talking about how long it took to figure out and fully configure the first time. 

 

I didn't know there were Rules :) and some just can't be helped....especially since i personally know no way to skew the Roof plane on Auto without an angled Wall.

 

1.) can't be helped with the invisible walls if you want the Roof , the Alcove setting didn't help to my surprise with the front entry area....but I stopped playing with it due to the time limit and just used an invisible wall.

2.) I didn't turn off Auto Roofs , it's still on in the plan I have ?  you only need to turn it off to delete the angled wall but you could also just make the angled Wall invisible too

        **you must of downloaded the 1st plan I posted , the second roof plane was caused by the invisible wall snapping to the main layer at the corner instead of to the siding

           and also why i initially had Auto-Roofs off**

3.) As noted above , Glenn may know another way though?

4.) It doesn't , as noted above , just make it invisible but you are right Chief may not be able to do this totally Automatically but the time limit made me use the "tricks" I knew to "get her done" , an all too common occurrence in Chief in my experience.

 

Good little Brain Teaser anyway , I thought it would be easier actually till I saw the Roof was skewed....

 

M.

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Mick,

 

What does "totally automatically" mean, is the big question.

We have to give Chief some information to be able to build an auto roof - you can't build an auto roof with a blank plan!.

The rules I was referring to are the rules imposed by Michael regarding what sort of information we can use to build the auto roof.

Quote

3.) As noted above , Glenn may know another way though?

I will post my plan today if I can (Christmas  eave here), but it certainly is different from your approach, and it does use the Auto Rebuild Roofs command.

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2 minutes ago, glennw said:

Mick,

 

What does "totally automatically" mean, is the big question.

We have to give Chief some information to be able to build an auto roof - you can't build an auto roof with a blank plan!.

The rules I was referring to are the rules imposed by Michael regarding what sort of information we can use to build the auto roof.

I will post my plan today if I can (Christmas  eave here), but it certainly is different from your approach, and it does use the Auto Rebuild Roofs command.

 

True , we are both playing the game without knowing the Rules :), figured I had likely broken a few ......will be interested to see your plan/technique.

 

Merry Xmas....

 

M.

 

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Okay okay.  You guys are right, I didn’t lay down any “rules” per se.  I shouldn’t have used that word in my follow-up post.  I should have said that I felt Micks wasn’t in keeping with the spirit of the “challenge”.

 

I guess I was envisioning that a qualifying solution required leaving my plan intact, just using wall/roof settings, and leaving auto turned on.  To be honest, I guess I did assume invisible walls would be necessary though and that those were okay (which is why I

said that was forgivable).  You guys are right though.  I didn’t actually spell it out.  That’s on me.  

 

The whole point of the challenge though as I think everyone understood was to highlight why manual roofs can be far easier for even some of the simplest roofs.

 

Anyway, Glenn’s solution (while still not perfect) was more in keeping with the challenge since it didn’t require tweaking my plan or turning off auto roofs so I’d have to give him the win, but if you feel I’m wrong Mick, I’d be more than happy to give you an hour of my time.  Technically you did use auto roofs.  Just shoot me an email and we’ll set something up.  

 

I’m giving Glenn the win though and calling the challenge closed.  

 

If we don’t speak again soon, I hope you guys all have a wonderful Christmas :-) 

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No , I didn't do it for the "free hour" , just as an exercise to see if my initial thinking was correct.....and if not, i'd learn something along the way. I am not sure how I broke the "spirit of the challenge" though unless you mean adding the angled wall and the wall breaks?

 

sounds like you think you know what Glenn did but I'll have to wait for the "reveal"....

 

Merry Xmas !

 

M.

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Mick,

No big deal.

I used a Roof Baseline Polyline, skewed at 45deg to the building.

 

If I am due any prize, I am happy to donate it to a deserving beginner who needs some help.

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11 minutes ago, glennw said:

If I am due any prize, I am happy to donate it to a deserving beginner who needs some help.

 

Thats nice of you Glenn.  For anyone who could use the help, just shoot me an email over to alaskansons@gmail.com and we’ll figure out a time that works.  I may not respond till after the holidays but the session will go to the first person I hear from.  

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19 minutes ago, glennw said:

Mick,

No big deal.

I used a Roof Baseline Polyline, skewed at 45deg to the building.

 

If I am due any prize, I am happy to donate it to a deserving beginner who needs some help.

 

Ahhhhh okay , that would of taken quite a bit of manual manipulation of the polyline I imagine to get it rectangular and on a single slope?

 

I was thinking more along the lines of Auto Roofs as in the limitations per the Home Designer DIY Products where this can not be done , hence my different approach.

 

That's nice of you Michael , I would suggest perhaps that the OP should receive the Training in this case if they'd like it.

 

Merry Xmas everyone...

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35 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Ahhhhh okay , that would of taken quite a bit of manual manipulation of the polyline I imagine to get it rectangular and on a single slope?

 

Not that hard Mick

 

 

New Image_27.jpg

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Thank you for the replies, plan posted below.  I have made quite an effort learning not only manual manipulation of roofs but also properly setting up wall controls for automatic roof construction.  There are a variety of responses, so I'll try to generally address.  Roof was set up and built with autoroof, but it was turned off after, no manual edits since.  I want to keep the perimeter wall height at 9', and the rest of the house at 9' ceiling, just the living area at 12'.  When I manually change this room height in the Room Spec DBX, it accomplishes what I want from the interior (ceiling at the base of the rafters until the room height is reached).  However, this change is applied through all rooms on the floor.

 

I do not believe this to be a lack of understanding on roof manipulation manually or automatically, but rather in the way the program addresses room height change.  I did draw invisible walls within the area where a 12' ceiling height would be built flat without any interaction with the rafters.  Same thing happens when I try to define this room at 12', it changes the entire story to 12'.

 

Thank you everyone, Merry Christmas

Cherokee Sketch.plan

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Kervin, per you suggestion, I spent a little time this morning and drew the roof from scratch with manual planes throughout, which, with a lot of help from this forum, I consider myself reasonably adept at.  Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the solution for the problem.  As soon as the room height is changed in the room spec DBX, it changes them throughout.

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Your problem is that you have an attic room defined over the top of that area.  When you change the ceiling height in one room below, Chief thinks that it needs to push the whole floor system up to accommodate the attic floor system...and therefore moves the entire ceiling up.  Not sure why you have it there, but one way or another, all you need to do is break that attic room definition and you should be good to go.

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The Attic Room designation does indeed appear to be the Issue in this case.....I deleted the 2nd floor and then added it back as a blank floor and drew walls just for the bonus room over the garage area and it seems to be working just fine.

 

M.

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14 hours ago, glennw said:

 

Not that hard Mick

 

 

New Image_27.jpg

 

easy for you too say :) , i'll have to wait for the Video Tutorial....

 

and read up on Baseline Polylines too apparently, to figure out how 4 gables ( vert-G) gave you a flat roof as I'd expect it to be T-Shaped.

 

M.

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