TheKitchenAbode Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 From what I can determine is that Scott's old system has an I7 4771 and the new system has an I7 7700K. They are both hyper-threaded 4 cores. Performance comparisons show the new processor to be about 33% faster on average. Personally, this is not enough improvement and for most the difference under normal use would be barely noticeable. Even though the new processor has a higher base and boost frequency this does not always translate directly to a noticeable speed improvement. All processor are constantly adjusting their frequency according to the workload. My 6700K when idle runs at about 1.7 GHz, when zooming in and out of a plan view it barely hits 3.3 GHz and when rotating a 3D camera it ramps up to about 4.1 GHz. As can be seen the higher frequency really only comes into play when there is a heavy load on the processor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 14 hours ago, johnny said: .... If Scott got a quad core system like he probably already had then that is probably causing the disappointment. Apple's entry level "Pro" computer is $5k. I think I have 8 cores. I might trade this one in for the pro version. It is pricey but might be worth it in time saved.... not sure. For most projects the system I have works fine but I have a 53 mb file that can be painfully slow at times. With my present system updating all views in layout can take a minute or two and that is what happens with the new computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Maybe I don't know what I am talking about. Maybe I have a quad core , but with hyper threading I have 8 cores. Do I have what most folks would consider a "quad core"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 If I went from the 'puter on the left to the 'puter on the right I would notice a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, dshall said: Maybe I don't know what I am talking about. Maybe I have a quad core , but with hyper threading I have 8 cores. Do I have what most folks would consider a "quad core"? Yes, you have 4 physical cores but with hyper-threading it gives you 8 logical cores. The way things are going the more cores the better, more and more software is being optimized to take advantage of those extra cores and when it comes to Ray Tracing it's all about the cores. Also, when you have many active programs (multi-tasking) their workload can be distributed over those cores which will keep things working smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 17 hours ago, DRAWZILLA said: Do whatever you need to do b/c this is your business and there is no messing around with that. Yeah, that is what I am thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 30 minutes ago, dshall said: If I went from the 'puter on the left to the 'puter on the right I would notice a difference? You will, but the degree of difference will vary. As you can see with the CPU options to the right, as the core count increases the base frequency of the CPU goes down. As such you will definitely see an improvement in overall multi-tasking smoothness and anything that supports multi-threaded operations and definitely Ray Trace times. However, for software that is predominately single threaded the lower base frequency could actually result in slower performance. My understanding is that CA is a mixed bag with single threaded operations, some multi-thread optimization and then Ray Trace which is fully optimized. It's difficult to say exactly which CPU would work best for you, it all depends on what issues you are having with your current system. I would only maybe consider the Xeon CPU if Ray Tracing was of upmost importance, that lower base frequency IMO is a big trade-off. The 10 core is likely the sweet-spot if it is the I9 7900X. The other consideration is the graphics card as the monitor is 5k, that's a lot of pixels to process and if you have other monitors then their pixels need to also be processed. The more pixels the higher the workload is on the GPU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Thank you Graham..... from what you say, it does not sound hopeful. Raytracing is not important . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, dshall said: Thank you Graham..... from what you say, it does not sound hopeful. Raytracing is not important . If Ray Tracing is not very important then the 8 core would be a good choice. The thing is, does the system jump in price justify the performance gain? Would be helpful to know what are the issues with your current system, where do you find it slow or laggy? Is it when you are multi-tasking with other software, generating camera views, editing in 3D. Some of these issues may be more related to the GPU than the CPU. I've got that issue now with the new PBR camera, my CPU seems to be ok but my GPU maxes out big time making it almost impractical to edit materials when in this camera mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 It is slow when: - editing roofs in 3d with plan and 3d view open - slow when updating all views in layout - I do have a few programs open at one time, but not using more than one at a time - editing roofs, i.e. friezes in 3d (waiting for the revised frieze to get fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 BTW, a real nuisance these days is the lag when opening up a DBX. I am opening DBX for symbols all the time, 1 second time a lot equals a lot of wasted time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 From what you describe I think my focus would be on the fastest single thread CPU and your graphics card. The I7 8700K is currently the king in single thread operations with a base frequency of 3.7 GHz but will boost to 4.7 GHZ. This CPU also has 6 hyper-threaded cores for 12 logical cores. Not sure if Apple offers this one in their line-up. That GTX 780M is likely being stressed out in 3D camera views. When you tested your new system did you see any 3D camera view performance improvement. If not it may be due to the 5K monitor, you could test this out by reducing it's resolution to match that of your older system and see if things improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 42 minutes ago, dshall said: BTW, a real nuisance these days is the lag when opening up a DBX. I am opening DBX for symbols all the time, 1 second time a lot equals a lot of wasted time. Scott, I believe this particular issue is almost 100% Chief related and I have faith they’ll have this fixed here in the next couple weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Many Chief users are facing the same issue - speed - or lack thereof and there's no easy solution as Chief is just a slow computer program when models get large. Many reasons for this of course but there's no relief in sight from the good folks at Chief (actually the reverse seems to be happening with Chief X10 actually running slower) so we have no other choice but to throw as much hardware as we can at the problem but the question is always the same, "Which hardware is going to make a real world difference." My computer is great about 90% of the time but those 10% jobs are torture. I'll have to make that decision coming up real soon and am lost as to which way to go and am not optimistic about seeing any great performance improvements which really blows. I don't know MAC's so can't help you specifically Scott but I'm curious if you'll notice any real differences with the Mac Pro. Keep us posted please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 hours ago, TheKitchenAbode said: You will, but the degree of difference will vary. As you can see with the CPU options to the right, as the core count increases the base frequency of the CPU goes down. As such you will definitely see an improvement in overall multi-tasking smoothness and anything that supports multi-threaded operations and definitely Ray Trace times. However, for software that is predominately single threaded the lower base frequency could actually result in slower performance. My understanding is that CA is a mixed bag with single threaded operations, some multi-thread optimization and then Ray Trace which is fully optimized. It's difficult to say exactly which CPU would work best for you, it all depends on what issues you are having with your current system. I would only maybe consider the Xeon CPU if Ray Tracing was of upmost importance, that lower base frequency IMO is a big trade-off. The 10 core is likely the sweet-spot if it is the I9 7900X. The other consideration is the graphics card as the monitor is 5k, that's a lot of pixels to process and if you have other monitors then their pixels need to also be processed. The more pixels the higher the workload is on the GPU. I threw my many core Xeon processors at a large test model and it was much slower at most operations versus a modern i7 processor that handles single threaded operations much better as Graham has stated above. Would NOT get a Xeon processor again unless RayTracing is your focus and the many cores can be utilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 For those large models the only way I know of to speed things up is to use the Active Layer Display Options and turn-off all unnecessary elements. For example, in the Grandview sample plan with a 3D camera there are 1.2 million surfaces, If I'm working on the roof planes there is considerable lag and very frustrating . If I turn off everything but the roof planes, walls normal and walls attic there are now only 22,000 surfaces and changes are quick and responsive. No hardware upgrade required, and I'm not sure that with current consumer level hardware I would be able to attain this level of performance improvement no matter how much I was willing to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 29 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said: For those large models the only way I know of to speed things up is to use the Active Layer Display Options and turn-off all unnecessary elements. For example, in the Grandview sample plan with a 3D camera there are 1.2 million surfaces, If I'm working on the roof planes there is considerable lag and very frustrating . If I turn off everything but the roof planes, walls normal and walls attic there are now only 22,000 surfaces and changes are quick and responsive. No hardware upgrade required, and I'm not sure that with current consumer level hardware I would be able to attain this level of performance improvement no matter how much I was willing to spend. Good advice and I suppose that can be managed by layer sets well? I haven't taken the time to set mine up with that consideration but perhaps it's time I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 minute ago, HumbleChief said: Good advice and I suppose that can be managed by layer sets well? I haven't taken the time to set mine up with that consideration but perhaps it's time I did. I think for those working on very large and complex models it would be worth it to explore this, especially if they are experiencing unacceptable response times. Even a minor amount of lag can be extremely frustrating and time consuming when there are many adjustments to be made. Personally, having to constantly upgrade hardware is becoming a problem and for many of us moving up from what we currently have is a major expense. My current system is barely 2 years old, to get something that will perform significantly better would likely cost me 2 to 3 times the price. Good for Intel, not so good for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 6 hours ago, dshall said: BTW, a real nuisance these days is the lag when opening up a DBX. I am opening DBX for symbols all the time, 1 second time a lot equals a lot of wasted time. I am also seeing this "hesitation" in DBX's opening.....thanks for mentioning it as I was thinking I had a hardware Issue . Like Graham I would think in X10 that the 780m is pushing it limits especially in Large Models. Don't know much about the AMD Radeons Apple seems to be using now from you Post above though. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Just now, Kbird1 said: I am also seeing this "hesitation" in DBX's opening.....thanks for mentioning it as I was thinking I had a hardware Issue . If running Windows you can adjust the settings that affect certain transitional effects related to pop-up windows and other things. Some of these effects can slow things down a bit. Control Panel, System, Advanced Systems Settings, Performance Settings. You can customize this according to your liking. Might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 If running Windows you can adjust the settings that affect certain transitional effects related to pop-up windows and other things. Some of these effects can slow things down a bit. Control Panel, System, Advanced Systems Settings, Performance Settings. You can customize this according to your liking. Might help. Thanks G. I will give it a try , it's been annoying me..... had/have an issue with my NVME SSD and thought it was related to that. anything in particular to "tweak" ? M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, Kbird1 said: Thanks G. I will give it a try , it's been annoying me..... had/have an issue with my NVME SSD and thought it was related to that. anything in particular to "tweak" ? M. I have everything turned off except "Show windows content when dragging" and "Smooth edges of screen fonts". Not perfect but it did make things a bit snappier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 thanks I'll try some different settings and see how it goes . personally I don't like drop shadows and Mouse cursor shadows so those are off already. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KernConstruction Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I have been noticing a lag in dbx as well with x10 upgrade which makes editing cabinets and doors painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electromen Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Scott, I have a six core Mac Pro with dual video cards. How can I help with a test? I'm using x9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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