Mystery Materials

[renosud]

Hi,

I seem to have a lot of materials that have accumulated in my main template plan materials list [view plan materials from the materials format painter]. I have made sure the plan is entirely empty with no walls or content anywhere, including deleting all CAD Details just in case. The list is showing some 85 materials as 'in use', but from where? The problem is that when the model is exported as a 3DS files for use in other 3D modelling software, it exports all the materials [including the mystery list of 85] which can quickly exceed the upper limit [of usually 100 separate materials] set by many modelling tools. As a result, the 3D models tend not to work. I am completely baffled as to a] where Chief is picking these up from as 'in use' and b] How to get rid of them? 

Any ideas?

Many thanks

Clive

Edited December 20, 2017 by renosud
Typo

[rlackore]

Have you checked Default Settings>Materials? This is where many, many material definitions reside:

 

Also, many other subcategories within the Default Settings hold material definitions:

 

And you can purge material definitions that are not longer defined for use in the 3D>Materials>Plan Materials dialog box:

[DavidJPotter]

4 hours ago, renosud said:

The list is showing some 85 materials as 'in use', but from where?

 

I suspect that you have developed your template plan over time, using it on projects in the past. Those materials that then show up as "in use" are not actually in use but were in use at one time. That indicates that you have become the effect of your own operating basis. In other words, the way you have been using your template plan is the cause of the excess, unwanted, leftover materials. My advice is to review what you have been doing and change your operating basis which is causing the results you are seeing.

 

DJP

[Joe_Carrick]

There may also be some objects that still exist in your template that you are just not seeing.

Turn on all layers, then check every Floor Level, and delete anything that shouldn't be there.

Also check CAD Details, Elevations and Sections.

[Kbird1]

And use the Purge button if you see Unused Materials on the List.......

[renosud]

Hi Everybody,

Thanks for the ideas. Have checked the purge angle. Everything that is there is tagged 'in-use' with nothing to purge. To clarify David's point, this is my template plan [saved as a template] that has indeed developed over time, but doesn't everybody do that? Have checked all sections/elevations etc, and all floors with 'all on' layer set - nothing hiding there. If anybody wants to take a look, you can download it from the link below. [Chief X9 - latest release]. Off to bed here in the South of France, so will pop back tomorrow to see if any of you guys can shed some light on it. As always, many thanks for your generosity and patience. 

Best wishes

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ngF1TwBNNS8ISVsPRszSzYvL0sXf5FU4/view?usp=sharing

[rlackore]

You haven't specified exactly which materials are a mystery, but looking down the list you posted, I quickly found the following:

 

602 Greentea Concrete

 

2980 North Cove - 520 Italian Stucco

 

2713 Bona Vista - B37 Concrete

 

2091 Soiree - 701 Iron Horse

 

They can all be discovered if you follow the advice of my first reply to your post. Yes, you have to dig a bit, but none of them are a mystery.

[renosud]

Hi Robert,

 

OK it's clear now. I can see that they are not a mystery. In fact I opened a chief example plan and realised that even without adding user materials during the evolution of a plan,  there are over 60 materials by default in the plan materials list sitting in the background. This just needs careful management because it's very easy to build up over 100 different defined materials. Technically, just to clarify for any Sketchfab users, as soon as the 'different materials ' passes 100, the model is rendered to a single default material as confirmed by the technical helpline. This does not mean just a count of the list of different materials in the 3DS export [which is then zipped for upload to Sketchfab]. Often the listed materials in the export can be as few as 20-30. The issue appears to be that the 3DS file itself embeds all of the default materials in the polygon architecture [even if there is no supporting texture file]. I have tested this by first deleting some of the exported material jpegs from the 3DS export to 'reduce' the materials, which had a minimal effect. What actually worked in the end was going into the plan materials list and merging many materials to reduce the whole list to less than 100.

 

Here's an example of a typical sketchfab model for our type of complex renovation projects in the South of France: typical sketchfab project Our clients, from all over the world, love this kind of interaction and so when you suddenly have to stop sending them models because the materials count passes 100 and the models fail, they get withdrawal symptoms. The Chief 3D viewer is too basic for us and does not present the same ultra professional image as sketchfab.  Any other sketchfab users will need also to be cautious in managing the total number of materials to less than 100. As a final point, I asked the technical guys at sketchfab if this upper limit could be increased, which they are considering. Sketchfab is really a 3D artist modelling platform, but they are aware that they are missing significant commercial opportunity for small architectural firms, who because of the complexity of the models, will quickly pass the 100 materials threshold. 

 

Many thanks

Clive

[DavidJPotter]

13 hours ago, renosud said:

that has indeed developed over time, but doesn't everybody do that?

 

No, I make my templates from scratch for each new version using the fresh "profile.plan" as its basis. To use an older version's template plan just brings old baggage with it. Customizing a new profile.plan only takes a few minutes to do per - version and is what I do.

 

DJP

[renosud]

Hi David,

Thanks so much for the clarification, that's interesting. If I understand you correctly, you use the default Chief profile.plan [unadulterated] and then add back in what you want? Does that mean importing all your custom wall styles, annotation sets/ layer sets etc each time? e.g. you do not save all this into the profile.plan and make tweaks etc to the profile.plan as the base template?

CP

[DavidJPotter]

5 hours ago, renosud said:

Does that mean importing all your custom wall styles, annotation sets/ layer sets etc each time? e.g. you do not save all this into the profile.plan and make tweaks etc to the profile.plan as the base template?

Yes, that is what I mean and do. Wall definitions can be exported and then imported later into your current profile.plan

 

DJP

[Alaskan_Son]

I concur with David's approach.  I would add though that walls can also just be stored in the library too so you don't even need to go through the export/import process.  You can be a lot more selective that way too.

[renosud]

Hi David/Alaskan Son,

Wow. It never even occurred to me to put the walls in the library. A fantastic and super flexible way to keep, use and amend them. Many thanks. I'll really look at David's method here, it's clearly a more controlled and clean way to work. I suppose bad habits stick an really bad habits really stick.

CP

[Joe_Carrick]

Walls, Material Regions, Doors, Windows, Cabinets and many other things can be stored in the Library.  Organizing the Library into Folders is really important for efficiency.

[Kbird1]

Would someone please confirm below or post the file info for Profile.Plan for X9 please  ie Date size etc , a pic from Explorer would work fine I think, I am unsure if mine is "clean" any longer as the two files now have different dates  ie the one in the Data Folder is newer than the backup one in C:\Programs\CA\Templates , but I am not 100% sure it is Clean either....

 

Or post a "known" clean version please.

 

Thanks,

 

M.

 

 

[DavidJPotter]

Mick, you can just reinstall X9 and get your own "fresh copy" of the profile.plan.

 

DJP

[Kbird1]

3 minutes ago, DavidJPotter said:

Mick, you can just reinstall X9 and get your own "fresh copy" of the profile.plan.

 

DJP

 

Yes, that was why I asked someone to post a copy and I didn't want to reinstall , in case it messed something else up by setting everything to OOB settings again...... eg Preferences etc.

[Alaskan_Son]

2 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Yes, that was why I asked someone to post a copy and I didn't want to reinstall , in case it messed something else up by setting everything to OOB settings again...... eg Preferences etc.

 

I would post a fresh copy except mine is no longer "fresh".  I use that profile plan as my personal template.

[Kbird1]

Thanks Michael..... how about the backup file in C\Programs\Chief Arch.\Templates ?    or have you alter that backup like me already too?

 

 

Another Question , I have on this is , what can be re-imported without possibly messing up a "Fresh Copy" ?

 

1.        Anno Sets
2.        Layers Sets
3.        Macros
4.        Wall Defs
5.        Toolbar Configs
6.        HotKeys
7.        Line Styles

anything else ?  or none of the above ? 

 

I am thinking Importing the Defaults would be a bad idea but I am thinking about everything in there like Text Styles etc , or are they included with the Annoset anyway?

 

 

Maybe I should make a new Topic on this ?

 

M.

 

[JJohnson]

Hardly used

Fresh Untitled 1.plan

[Kbird1]

1 minute ago, JJohnson said:

Hardly used

Fresh Untitled 1.plan

 

Thanks JJohnson

 

everyone should have a backup Profile.Plan file in C:\Programs\Chief Arch.x9\Templates of all Chief OOB Templates , just in case they ruin the ones ( like me) in the Chief Data folder at : My Documents\Chief Architect Premier X9 Data  in my case I think I may have accidentally edited that already.

 

I looked on CA website in case they had a Download for such issues but couldn't find one....

 

Mick

[Dermot]

Regarding templates, you should not modify the ones installed in the program folder. In fact, you should probably not modify anything installed in the program folder.  If you have, I would recommend that you uninstall and reinstall the program.

 

Modifying the ones in your data folder is OK but I think it is preferred to create new templates rather then modify the ones shipped with Chief.  You can always make your template the default for new plans by changing your preferences so there really is no reason that you need to modify the ones we ship.

 

On a side note, I would never trust that a template plan posted on this forum is actually the same as the most current one that gets installed.

 

If all else fails, contact tech support for more help.

 

[Kbird1]

Hi  thanks Dermot , I am not 100% sure if I have altered the one in the Programs folder , it is different size from the one in My Data folder though ( and it is a different size than the one posted by JJ too) that was why I was trying to find out the File Size etc of a "clean" Profile.Plan File. 

 

But I may have accessed and accidentally saved it ( Used Save icon , instead of Save As Icon), after accidentally altering the one in the Data Folder too, while doing a test plan, helping here on the Forums. 

 

Mick.