Joe_Carrick

Jon, Maybe, but I'm most interested in getting my app windows to have the same "Frames, Title Bars, Icons, etc".

Note that when you customize a Door, Window, Cabinet, or even Wall Types in Chief, you can save those to your Library for future use. It's not just Symbols that can be in the Library.

Johnny, You could have similar CAD Blocks stored in your Library in Chief and do this kind of detailing in a CAD Detail Window. OTOH, you can also have most of this set up in 3D Symbols, Wall Types, Windows, Doors, etc in the Library and do it in 3D. Having saved Cameras (Elevations) in your Default Plan means that the Elevations are being created as the Plan is being developed. If the Render Technique is set to "Technical Illustration" or "Line Drawing" you can get a lot of that "Artsy" result.

This would make a great suggestion for Chief. Since you do this kind of detailing it would make sense for you to make it. I'd be happey to help, consult on the suggestion if you want. I think it's a great idea - especially for custom cabinets. I would think that many of the KBD's would be interested as well.

Michael, I don't normally do those details. Most cabinet suppliers have software that does this. I have access to one that allows me to do custom face frames directly while preparing the order. For standard modular cabinets I only have to specify the cabinet stock id and the overall dimensions. If I need something very specific that's going to be fabricated locally I would just work with the cabinet shop and have them provide shop drawings for approval. Your method or a Cabinet Schedule with notes could provide them with a guide. Maybe this would be a nice feature for a future version of Chief. "Automatic Face Frame Detail". It shouldn't be too difficult since all the dimensional data is in the Cabinet dbx. I had posted a suggestion previously about being able to generate a Polyline using coordinate data contained in a Ruby variable. If that was available the Face Frame Detail could be created very easily just using the Cabinet Attributes. The only problem would be that Chief would need to provide more attributes --- currently they don't contain quite enough information.

I really can't wait until someone develops Windows 7/8 "Skins" for Windows 10. I miss the appearance of Windows 7. OTOH, the modest speed improvement of Windows 10 is probably due to the simplification of the Frames and Icons.

1. Send a Standard Render with Shadows to Layout, then a Vector View without changing the viewport. 2. Check the height of the 2 Layout Boxes and determine the ratio. 3. Resize the Render Layout Box using Transform Replicate so that bot are the same size 4. Center the 2 Views on each other (Horizontal and Vertical)

I first started using CAD for Architecture in 1978. At that time 2D was all there was so I am very familiar with all the tools and how to make the most of them. With Chief, I use almost no 2D CAD other than dimensions, text annotation, markers and callouts. The exception is some CAD Details but I get the majority of that done by use of Sections and CAD Detail from View. Other than my Layout Borders, Property Lines, Setback Lines, & CAD Masks (Fill and Placement Tools) I rarely use 2D in my work. I don't even use Polyline Solids except to create some Symbols. I just find that using the 3D Tools in Chief promotes better spacial thinking. Have you also embraced this or do you still tend to work in 2D?

What are you trying to accomplish? Is this to be able to do a render view of both houses?

Here's the Plan. Just Display in 3D and Convert to a "Molding Symbol". Soffit Framing Symbol.zip

Sorry Alan, That's the only way I know of that you can do it.

So here is an alternative: I created a 3D Molding Symbol that can be adjusted for both width and height. The Symbol contains the framing and the soffit and wall surfaces. By creating a Room Molding Polyline and setting the linestyle to a short dash it will show in Plan View. The width can be anything from 6" to 72" and the height can be 8" to 48".

Since "Soffits" in Chief are actually a special class of "Cabinets" - I don't think we'll ever get "framing" for them. A special class of "Ceiling" with framing (including the wall above) would be the solution IMO. I'm sure CA already has this in their database but who knows if it will ever get high enough up the list to make it into a future release.

Simple solution. My 1st Floor has a Ceiling height of 8' ----- This is to be the "Soffit Height" I created a 2nd Floor - Ceiling Height 20" - Floor Structure 2x4's - no Finish Floor - Open Below Then I drew walls (2x4 with drywall on only one side) on the 2nd Floor) and change the Room to "Unspecified". Build Framing (Walls, Ceilings, Floors, Roof) Not a big deal but it shows another reason to consider using extra floors. For the real Second Floor I just add a 3rd Floor and label it as "Second Floor"

Here is a picture of this scenario that I did totally using Chief's Structure and it framed - including the soffit and the soffit walls. This did not use Scott's method. There are not "Openings to make the soffit walls. In fact there are no interior walls on that floor at all.

I also tend to agree Please go back and read post #1. It really wasn't about how to deal with different ceiling elevations - it was about what changing floor and/or ceiling elevations effects adjacent floors and the rooms on those floors..

So Glenn had the Perfect solution for Perry's conundrum - but really this thread (the original post) was intended to explain how moving floors and/or ceiling heights effect the rooms above and/or below. It's really interesting how a subject can get side tracked so easily. Scott ----- I agree for the GTM on Thursday we need to discuss the issues about the Structure dbx and how we would like it to be modified to work better, but I'm not sure all the ramifications of "dropped ceilings" should be the focus of the meeting. Understanding how the vertical Push/Pull works and how it could be improved is IMO much more important. We could easily get side tracked with "details" which as Glenn pointed out are not that big a deal as long as you understand those settings that he showed us.

Jon, You are only partially correct. Manually Drawn Ceiling Planes can be used for "Dropped Ceilings" and those will use the "Ceiling Structure". This is a good way to avoid having to use the "Ceiling Finish" or "Floor Structure" to define those things where you have a Floor above the Ceiling. Note that otherwise the "Ceiling Structure" is pretty much limited to the Ceilings directly below a Roof. That's because where there's a Floor above, the "Ceiling Finish" is directly applied to the Floor Structure.

Larry and others are having trouble understanding how the Structure dbx works. Here are the rules as I understand them: 1. The Floor Definitions define Ceiling Heights and thereby reserve a minimum vertical space. 2. The Floor Structure Definitions also reserve vertical space (no room can infringe on this) 3. The Ceiling Finish is applied directly to the bottom of the Floor Structure above. 4. As Floors are built/created, they follow the values set in the defaults. 5. Subsequent modifications to the Room Structure dbx have the following ramifications: If the Ceiling Height of a Room is changed it effects the Floor of the Room(s) directly above above by moving the Floor Structure. If the Floor Elevation of a Room is changed it effects the Ceiling Heights of the Room(s) directly below - again by moving the Floor Structure. Note that if there are overlapping room locations more than one room may be effected. When a Foundation or Roof is present and "Rebuild" is OFF those elevations are essentially fixed which can result in some difficulty in adjusting the lowest Floor if "Floor is supplied by Foundation Room Below" and also difficulty in adjusting the ceiling heights directly below the Roof. Note that by modifying the Floor Structure to include an Air Gap and Ceiling Joist Framing you can get a "Lowered Ceiling" for the Room(s) below. The Ceiling Finish will be applied to the bottom of that Structure. The Other option is to modify the "Ceiling Finish to include that Air Gap and Framing.

Just change the Floor Structure Framing Defaults and then Rebuild all the Framing. That will leave the 1st Floor at its current elevation, all ceiling heights will be correct and all floor elevations will be moved up appropriately. You will have to have "Rebuild Foundation" ON so that the Basement will move down. You will also want "Rebuild Roof" ON so the Roof will move up.

Assuming that the Ceiling Heights are to be maintained, you need to change the Floor Structure Definitions only. If you want the Floor Elevations to remain constant then after updating the Floor Structure Definitions - start at the top floor and set the absolute floor elevations for all rooms to the desired values. This will push the floor structure below down and the ceiling height below will be lower. Doing this for each floor except the 1st Floor.

Larry, Do you want the Floor Elevations to remain constant or the Ceiling Heights to remain constant?

Alan, It' not a matter of drawing the 2nd Floor first. However, if you want to adjust floor and/or ceiling heights you need to start doing that process from the top down. I personally prefer to do that without a Roof or a Foundation - but if you do have those you need to have "Auto Rebuild" ON. Also remember that having "Stacked Rooms" will make It a lot easier and that's where you may need "Invisible Walls". In addition, you might need to use separate Ceiling Planes or modify the Floor Structure(s) or the Ceiling Finish. One way to think of this process is that you are moving 3D volumes and moving one volume is going to "bump" another. In addition, you may have a fixed thickness Floor Structure that might also be "bumped".

Glenn, You are absolutely right. If the user understands how Chief works and follows that process it is possible to get the results desired. OTOH, the Structure dbx is not at all intuitive and many users fail to comprehend that: 1. It's best to work from top down without a Roof or Foundation 2. To get different Floor Heights on upper Floors while maintaining a uniform ceiling height below you need to adjust the upper Floor Structure. You may also need judicial placement of invisible walls. 3. If a Foundation or Roof is present - "Auto Rebuild" is a big help. 4. Separate Ceiling Planes are an extra tool that can help.

Glenn, That's not really surprising since the Layout is really just a "Plan" file with the ".layout" extension & "Pages" instead of "Floors". The Line Styles behave the same either way.