HumbleChief Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 Using the S.A.M. method eventually you will have lots of junk in your plan . I think I'm seeing the wisdom here Perry. Let's say I have a special case Anno Set I feel like setting for a unique situation. That Anno Set (plus every other unique Anno Set) persists through every plan using the SAM but using a template that Anno Set never shows up again for future plans. It might be hard to imagine but I don't really mind having a bunch of Anno Sets around and I know my way around my set up, which should be easy to imagine, quite well. It might be junk but hey it's my junk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I haven't heard of Chief giving any warning about using the SAM, what they said was update to a new profile with every new version. BTW My layers and anno-sets are very simple and I bet anyone could make sense of them. Larry, If I can't make sense of them ,then no one can except yourself. That will hurt you if you need help with a plan. I think this is the point of the thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Got to take advantage of that. Are you still the SAM Scott? Or have you switched because of Chief's warning re:SAM? Yes, I still use the SAM. I know CA recommends not using the SAM. Today I had to set up new 24x36 borders and 30x42 borders for a new client. If I did to use the SAM, I would of needed to do this twice or I would of needed to set up in template layout before beginning. Both methods work well, inefficiency occurs if neither method is not used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 ...inefficiency occurs if neither method is not used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I'm not getting it. "Save As" is a windows file operation as is "Save". "Save As" combines the "Copy", "Rename" into a single command. "Save" replaces the former file of the same name with a new file of the same name. "Save As" creates a new file with a new name and leaves the former file with it's name intact and unchanged. These commands do nothing more than this. neither one will change the file associations within Chief. If you have a Layout linked to a plan then the link path is the same in the "Save" file and the "Save As" file. If you used "Save As" on the layout file then the linked plan file association will be the former name. If you also want a new plan file association within the new "Save As" layout then you must open up the original plan file, do a "Save As" with a new name and then open up the new layout and relink to the new "Save As" plan. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 this reminds me that we can now delete MOST layer sets. I remember this being true as well but can't see any real difference now as compared to a previous version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 Appreciate your patience and find it a bit uncomfortable posting these simple questions but am struggling a bit. Just reviewed a SAM versus template video (Scott) and noticed for the first time each method appears to only have one plan in it. For the remodels I do I almost always have two plan files. An 'as built' or 'existing' plan and a 'proposed' plan. Let's say I have a Layout template with a Plan template referenced within that Layout. (Will probably use a modified SAM eventually but for now I've got a couple templates) It's all set and ready to go. The elevations, sections, foundation, framing plan etc. are all pulled from the Plan template and sent to a Layout Page. Got a new job. I go and measure a very simple 1500 SF older home in the San Diego suburbs. Arrive home and it's time to draw the new job. I click 'New Layout' and my Layout template pops up and I 'Save As' a file in the new Smith folder and call it 'Smith 24 x 36 Layout'. I then go to the plan template file that's in the Layout double click to open it and Save As back to the Smith folder as 'As Built 1'. Now all my elevations, sections, everything is being pulled from the As Built 1 plan. Still in my Layout working on the As Built. I finish the As Built model, all is good. I 'Save As' the As Built and call it 'Smith Proposed 1. Now all the sections, elevations etc. are being pulled from 'Smith Proposed 1'. The As Built plan no longer is visible in the Layout but is still referenced. If I close the Layout now and re-open the Proposed Plan is no longer visible because I didn't change the reference from the As Built to the Proposed. A little strange but can be dealt with. So now I've completed the proposed plan everyone is happy and sending me checks. The Layout shows all of the Proposed Plan's sections, elevations etc. and it looks pretty good. But, there's no longer an As Built plan. Neither referenced nor visible in the Layout. Simple enough to open the original Smith As Built floor plan and send it to Layout but there's no references to any elevations, sections etc. That's usually OK because the proposed sections and elevation can usually suffice to show smaller additions but there have been a couple times where the As Built Elevations were a must for plan check and clarity. I haven't seen or noticed two plan sets in the SAM or template methods and just wondered how it's handled with either method? Is the As Built (existing) sent to Layout separately? After the proposed is complete? If a user wants to pull elevations, sections etc. from the as built then that seems to be a separate, independent, operation - true? Hit stop instead of pause. 2ND Vid below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I have 3 files. As built, Proposed and a details file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Larry, not sure this is what's happening bit I believe Chief by default expects everything to be in the same folder. I have experienced this with items such as imported pics and pdf files into a layout. If I Save the layout to another folder the pics and pdf files do not show up, have to import them again to establish the link. In programing file locations can be either absolute or relative. Mabey this is the reason some have said that Chief does not recommend the Save As method. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 I have 3 files. As built, Proposed and a details file. Thanks Scott, Same here, just never saw a reference to the actual transformation of the As Built into the Proposed and how that interacted within the Layout. I think the system I've described above (video too) will work fine. I finally have some free time and have a couple new jobs coming up next week and will certainly try it out. Thanks so much for your helpful videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 Larry, not sure this is what's happening bit I believe Chief by default expects everything to be in the same folder. I have experienced this with items such as imported pics and pdf files into a layout. If I Save the layout to another folder the pics and pdf files do not show up, have to import them again to establish the link. In programing file locations can be either absolute or relative. Mabey this is the reason some have said that Chief does not recommend the Save As method. Graham I'm pretty sure Chief does indeed want things in the same folder and will warn if the Layout or Plan is in a different folder. The only thing that seems tricky to me is that when doing a 'Save As' for a plan it looks like that new plan name is now referenced in the Layout and even shows up in all the Layout pages as if it has been 'replaced' or 're-referenced' but that reference is only temporary and goes away when you close and re-open the file, unless you actually reference the new file name. I think Perry hit on the most important warning from Chief re: Saving As old plans and it has to do with a newer version of Chief. If you bring an older plan and save as into the new version it might cause problems. I've never seen any of those problems and personally will choose either a template or the SAM despite those warnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 first, I copy my template plan and layout to a different folder, or you can just open them and save as and re-link them in the layout. (new folder).I then start to draw the plan as the remodeled plan then when I'm done with the as- built portion ,I simply do an ,as built, save as. There is no need to relink anything doing it that way. Then I continue the remodeled plan with the new stuff. very simple doing it that way. Everything relating to that job always in the same job folder and never have any link problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 The Layout and the Plan should be in the Project Folder. But secondary Plans located elsewhere can have views sent to that Layout. I have several secondary Plans that contain nothing but Standard Details. My standard Layout has many of those details already and for each project I will send additional details from those plans as needed. When I create a new project from an existing, I don't have to re-link those because they are in a folder that doesn't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernie Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I hardcopy (use windows file manager) a similar project across and rename it to the new project. then I find the .plan file is king. reason: you can only have 1 .layout file open , but you can have many .plan files open simultaneously. start with a fairly recent .plan file (from your last 5-10-20 projects, and by the way, you'll probably be working on 5-10-20 projects at once like me so its not usually a problem) do a S.A.M. on that file. strip it down, spread things out layer by layer. (or anno set by anno set) declutter it, take out what you dont need for the new project. in this manner you'll have a recent 'base' file to work from. BONUS, it will contain all your new layers, anno sets, etc. so you dont spend time 'fluffing' instead of 'drawing'. now, go draw the existing house plan, if any. take a snapshot, and turn it into the proposed. somewhere along the line you'll want to present some data to clients, so find a recent .layout file, (from the same version of CA. ie dont mix .plan x6 with .layout x7 or x7 .plan with x8 .layout.. a big no no. funny things happen under the hood in them internal magic workings called CA databases...) and take 10ish minutes to relink it all, fess with it, page by page, back to your .plan file you want to use. a pain, but cant be helped. usually most is linked except the elevation cameras, which you'll need to send again. my layout page numering system doesnt change (dont need to add layout pages) as I already have an index system set up that copes with any project type. (if a page isnt used, it isnt included in the index, and not displayed, even though the page is still there in the background .layout template file) in reality you only need 1-2 different 'types' of templates (.plan and .layout files) set up to handle all the projects that will ever come your way. as above, my .layout file never changes, I run it 'dumb', apart from the index and page 0 stuff. I run all the cad drawing data stored in the .plan file in anno sets, I run a mixture of cad details from CA .lib, from .plan master (user library) files, and from within the .plan .cad details pages. My big trick is I use external text files to handle the wordy stuff (I try and keep my plan files minimalist on text) write something, write it once (but display it many times if you have to with macros) is my motto. example: create a short 'key spec' note that you put on each page (floorplan, elevations, sections, etc) every time you type into a new text box some words, you are wide open to litigation because if you say roof pitch 12 degrees on page 10, and 14 degrees on page 11, guess what? when you didnt say the same thing OR the spec changes (and you forget to change it in all places), you are stuffed. the builder will build with what your typo says, not what you meant to say. So I import "chunks" of text into the .plan file with some of Joes macros adapted to read a single text file in 'chunks'. (sections) that I have defined. text macros in the .plan file import particular chunks of text from from external text files (5 is all you need) and display them in the .plan file. In this way I can keep each projects main text in external text files, reason: huge time savings to be had. it is real easy to use an external text editor / file differencing engine to cut and paste similar project info from one project text file to the next. (cutting and pasting text inside CA is not advanced, no multi-clipboard, etc etc) I've shaved 5-10 hours off each set of drawings with this method, and it is super easy to change the spec. I change the external text file text, reload the macros, and all pages are instantly updated to reflect the new data. thats a serious amount spare time that adds up in a year when you pump out drawings for a living works a treat. drawings should be clean with lines and 3D. the only thing that should change in your drawings should be the "art" in the architecture. get all the text out of chief (but still display it) into a system that is repeatable and reliable. manually writing stuff in chief ad hoc is not a system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 ......and take 10-20 minutes to relink it all, page by page, back to your .plan file you want to use. a pain, but cant be helped. usually most is linked except the elevations, which you'll need to send again......... Unless I am missing something, your can relink in "one fell swoop". Elevations never need to be resent... unless I am missing something. You might want to look at some video on the SAM. You might save another hour off of project time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Scott - I know you can update (refresh) the links in "one fell swoop", but not aware of the ability to reassign the links in "one fell swoop". Have always had to individually relink each one to the new file name as Bernie does. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I just ran a simple test with a Layout with a linked plan. I believe this is where things can get a bit mixed up when either copying things to a new folder or using the "Save As" function. Assume your Layout and it's linked Plan resides in Folder "A". If you copy from folder "A" only the Layout to new Folder "B" and then open it the linked plan will be the one in Folder "A". If you copy from folder "A" both the Layout and Plan to new folder "B" and then open the layout the linked plan will be the one in Folder "B". It appears that when a layout with a linked plan is opened it first assumes to find the linked plan in the same folder that the layout resides in, if it does then it opens it. If it does not then it uses the absolute address of the linked plan and opens that one. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Like first stated in the OP there's many ways to skin this cat and I think Bernie has described a similar method to what I've been using for far too long. It all works and we'll each develop our own methods but there are faster ways to use templates, the SAM etc. Why would you resend an elevation when you just don't have to? Why would you re-link all, page by page when the Layout can include all the relevant text, changed when needed with Anno Sets? Really just need to re-link the plan file and detail file if you choose. What I found in my own work flow was that I was doing many similar things and I think once we get into a routine there is much, much, good to be said about that routine but I recognized I was doing things over and over that didn't need to be done over and over. For me changing one's routine is not easy, and justifying it to ourselves is even easier but for me it's time for a change and I've literally been working every day trying to catch up until recently. Now with a little breather I'm trying to be all ears (eyes) and see what I might be missing. For example I'm intrigued by Bernie's external text file technique described above and will look into it to see if makes things better faster in my work flow. May integrate Joe's macros soon but it's Monday and time to get crackin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Scott - I know you can update (refresh) the links in "one fell swoop", but not aware of the ability to reassign the links in "one fell swoop". Have always had to individually relink each one to the new file name as Bernie does. Graham Graham, I am confused, I am telling you that I can relink EVERY VIEW IN LAYOUT TO A PARTICULAR PLAN in one fell swoop. here is a vid https://youtu.be/oK7-1ePBQQw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Thanks for the video Scott. I think you guys might be arguing the semantics of 'one fell swoop' and actually describing the same technique. All good stuff you guys appreciate the tips and comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Another question; How do you label your Layout Views; with Layout Labels? Or custom, separate Text? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I always use layout labels when possible, of course they are already labeled in my layout template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 I always use layout labels when possible, of course they are already labeled in my layout template. Thanks P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Larry,I use the Layout Label to show the scale:Scale: %BOX SCALE% In most cases I place the following in the Plan views:%view.name% which corresponds to the name in the Project Browser.Most of the views (CAD Details, Cameras, Cross Sections, etc) can be renamed in the Project Browser. The Floor Plan views can't be renamed so for those I just use Text.The macros shown above are Chief's OOB macros so it's just a matter of setting it up in your templates. Then the naming is pretty much automatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Nice Joe. What about Floor Plan Views? They can use a Layout Label no? Perhaps no macro, but label text correct? Follow up - When I specify %view.name% no label shows up. When I choose automatic label I get the project browser name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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