New To Chief. Is There A Keynote Tool?

[mkennedy2000]

Yeah, I kind of agree. i tried plant schedules, its a bit cumbersome. More of the same gives more flexibility but is equally cumbersome.

I dont think key notes is an exotic request. I understand that not everyone uses them but it is a pretty widely recognized and commonly employed tool.

[CARMELHILL]

Off topic, but

 

There was someone that posted a solution, but I can't find it. He essentially cut a live section, did his 2d detail off to the side, and sent the detail to the Layout. Once in the Layout, rather than centering the Layout Box on the live section he centered it on his little 2d detail. It's another stupid work around, but I believe it works.

[mkennedy2000]

Is there a way to create or add a special symbol in the macro tool? I'd love to be able to have the whatever shape I'm using for callouts as a shape I could place in a line of text.

[Alaskan_Son]

3 hours ago, mkennedy2000 said:

Is there a way to create or add a special symbol in the macro tool? I'd love to be able to have the whatever shape I'm using for callouts as a shape I could place in a line of text.

 

This is SORT OF possible but it would require a highly customized font and one or more custom text macros and you would be very limited with regard to vertical spacing.  I don't think it would be any kind of worth it.

[mkennedy2000]

There is a little font editor in Windows - in theory I can create new characters in any font I use - I took a gander and it might, just might, be doable....

[wjmdes]

On 3/4/2016 at 4:25 PM, Alaskan_Son said:

Incorrect. It can be used in elevations and sections as well (you can even place any number of your note symbols on specific layers so they will only display in your desired views).

I watched your video and did "key notes" for a demolition plan.  Worked perfect, thank you.  It works well especially when I have a repeated note to remove a door, I can just copy it and it looks much better than numerous leader lines.

 

Is it a simple answer on how to get it to work with elevations?

[CARMELHILL]

It's still a lot clunkier to use than it should be. The keynotes, when placed in plan view, then adjusted in elevation and section, can easily get lost behind walls. And depending which object you use to get some labels, the arrow leader lines won't stay attached to and move with the label.

 

Others have mentioned that keynotes on residential drawings aren't friendly to contractors. They want their information in front of them, on the sheet they are reviewing. I used them extensively on two residential projects. I agree....it started to get confusing. One project received 28 rejection comments from the plans examiner. 90% of the comments were crap, but I think he didn't appreciate the use of keynotes for everything, I even used them for joist spans. See attached. I'll still use them on commercial because I feel it's a requirement on larger commercial projects.

 

I hope they come out with a better system. I see a pathway towards a better keynote system, from what they are developing for other tools & schedules for upcoming releases. But a specific keynote tool is still a distant dream.

 

keynotes.pdf

[mkennedy2000]

I'm gonna check with my crews, but I'm a former field guy and I've tried various methods to illustrate construction, tending more and more towards a note block on each plan. I've tried putting details on the same sheet as the plans, that is actually very easy build from, on a small job I can put foundation aplan and details on one sheet, but we mostly do additions and remodeling.

I'd say as a designer, I WAY prefer keynotes, I can build a list of comments, then drop the callouts on the plan.

As adrafter, I dont really care, I just want a system where I can, with one or two key strokes\button clicks, drop the same verbose or verbose+graphical content in multiple locations AND have them all "stay in sync". I think the use of a macro library is ana lternate path to the keynotes.

As a tradesman first and contractor second, I'm pretty neutral - I've worked as an inspector also and TBH an awful lot of what plan checkers and designers (proffessioanl and otherwise) focus on is pretty well ignored in the field, as often as not becuase it is just reiterating what is common knowledge to the trades. My window guy wouldn't sell me untempered windows in a tempered window location and the inspector is gonna inspect for them regardles of the plans.

[DRAWZILLA]

12 hours ago, CARMELHILL said:

It's still a lot clunkier to use than it should be. The keynotes, when placed in plan view, then adjusted in elevation and section, can easily get lost behind walls. And depending which object you use to get some labels, the arrow leader lines won't stay attached to and move with the label.

 

Others have mentioned that keynotes on residential drawings aren't friendly to contractors. They want their information in front of them, on the sheet they are reviewing. I used them extensively on two residential projects. I agree....it started to get confusing. One project received 28 rejection comments from the plans examiner. 90% of the comments were crap, but I think he didn't appreciate the use of keynotes for everything, I even used them for joist spans. See attached. I'll still use them on commercial because I feel it's a requirement on larger commercial projects.

 

I hope they come out with a better system. I see a pathway towards a better keynote system, from what they are developing for other tools & schedules for upcoming releases. But a specific keynote tool is still a distant dream.

 

keynotes.pdf

Nice use of plan notes and spec's, are they all automatic or did you have to fake them?

[Joe_Carrick]

22 minutes ago, DRAWZILLA said:

Nice use of plan notes and spec's, are they all automatic or did you have to fake them?

Perry,

You can use macros in a Keynote, but nothing that would automatically get info from the object - since the object is a only a plant, not the object to which the Keynote is about.  OTOH, if you have non-evaluated text macros with the desired text then those would work fine.  You just have to select the correct macro.

[Alaskan_Son]

8 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

Perry,

You can use macros in a Keynote, but nothing that would automatically get info from the object - since the object is a only a plant, not the object to which the Keynote is about.  OTOH, if you have non-evaluated text macros with the desired text then those would work fine.  You just have to select the correct macro.

 

It actually depends on what kind of object you use for your keynotes and what information you want to display.  Some information CAN be automated such as subfloor height, finish floor height, finish ceiling height, room name, floor number, as well as a number of other values provided by Chief’s built in global macros.  It’s certainly not automatable to the extent I would like to see but a few things are possible.  

[DRAWZILLA]

OK JOE, THANKS ,I CAN DEAL WITH THAT. Never thought of using macros in the plan notes.

[DRAWZILLA]

1 minute ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

It actually depends on what kind of object you use for your keynotes and what information you want to display.  Some information CAN be automated such as subfloor height, finish floor height, finish ceiling height, room name, floor number, and a number of other values provided by Chief’s built in global macros.  It’s certainly not automatable to the extent I would like to see but a few things are possible.  

 

1 minute ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

It actually depends on what kind of object you use for your keynotes and what information you want to display.  Some information CAN be automated such as subfloor height, finish floor height, finish ceiling height, room name, floor number, and a number of other values provided by Chief’s built in global macros.  It’s certainly not automatable to the extent I would like to see but a few things are possible.  

Thanks Michael, didn't know that, I guess I should dig in and revamp my plan notes since I don't think Chief is adding them anytime soon.

[Joe_Carrick]

Ideally, a Keynote system should have a Callout that could have an Arrow.  Then, if the Arrow was attached to an object it would recognize that the Keynote referred to (referenced) that object.  This would allow the macro to use attributes of the object. 

[CARMELHILL]

I spent two weeks adding all my standard notes and creating a database of plants with the notes inserted into the labels. That's about as automatic as it gets. I started running into conflicts on individual elevations, sections, and floor plans, so I started getting nuts. I was using electrical fixtures, base cabinets, wall cabinets, full cabinets, etc... What really stinks, once you use those cabinet schedules for your keynote system......you can never use it for an actual cabinet schedule. Not something I ever do, but still a limitation. You can insert them into a fake room and make the schedule only pull from that room, but then your placing the symbol in one spot, and moving the label completely somewhere else. That gets pretty stupid.

 

I was going to take it a step further and start using simple macro strings inside the labels until I saw what they were doing with the X10beta. There is some very interesting things they are doing with the schedules which they show in the presentation videos......accessing symbols and the data fields from within the schedules themselves. That's key for quick editing of keynotes. I see them using part of this new found usability to make a keynote manager in the future. Not in X10 but Dermot mentioned they are working on it.

 

Edit: I decided to attach the file. See the insanity?

keynotes_drawings.zip

Edited January 5, 2018 by CARMELHILL
I decided to attached the plan file. See the insanity?

[Kbird1]

Hi Ed.  I was just looking at your plan and this is not about the Keynotes perse but I noticed in the CAD Detail Elevations a bunch of the Text is squashed up , some fixes itself when you open and close the DBX and in others like the Plant Schedule in Elev. 1+ 2 you need to open and check the Auto width box to fix them.

 

Perhaps you started it in X9 and finished in X10? and that is the issue ? not sure.....

[CARMELHILL]

15 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

Hi Ed.  I was just looking at your plan and this is not about the Keynotes perse but I noticed in the CAD Detail Elevations a bunch of the Text is squashed up , some fixes itself when you open and close the DBX and in others like the Plant Schedule in Elev. 1+ 2 you need to open and check the Auto width box to fix them.

I finished that file on 10-24, so it was X9. I probably resaved the keynotes drawing file and zipped it when I was playing with beta.

 

But I didn't use any of those CAD Detail elevations in the drawings unless I used them to create some custom polyline solids like the arched barrel vault over the front door. All the elevations were live 3d, so I should have deleted them. But, I have noticed in the past that word wrap problem whenever Chief upgrades to new versions. It always plays games with the word wrap. It's been less of a problem in the last few releases. I don't remember when, but a few years ago every single text line in my templates and notes database had to be redone because of that word wrap problem.

[Kbird1]

5 hours ago, CARMELHILL said:

I finished that file on 10-24, so it was X9. I probably resaved the keynotes drawing file and zipped it when I was playing with beta.

 

But I didn't use any of those CAD Detail elevations in the drawings unless I used them to create some custom polyline solids like the arched barrel vault over the front door. All the elevations were live 3d, so I should have deleted them. But, I have noticed in the past that word wrap problem whenever Chief upgrades to new versions. It always plays games with the word wrap. It's been less of a problem in the last few releases. I don't remember when, but a few years ago every single text line in my templates and notes database had to be redone because of that word wrap problem.

 

Ok that makes sense , won't open in X9,  the views were zoomed in on the Entry Arch so I guess you are correct, I wasn't sure if this was still a working plan and the bad text maybe causing issues in the Layout etc. so wanted to point it out incase you hadn't noticed it.

 

M.