Joe_Carrick

Floor Slab with Foundation Walls

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Why can't I get the Floor Slab to show in a Framing Overview when using Foundation Walls?  It shows with a Mono-Slab but not with Foundation Walls.

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Joe,

 

Do you have the Floor Surfaces layer turned on in the framing overview?

The mono slab is on the Slabs layer.

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Glenn,

 

Floor Surfaces gives me the "Floor Finish", not the Slab.  It' like Chief just doesn't have the Slab on the Slab Layer when it's a Foundation Wall instead of a MonoSlab.

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I think you are correct Joe.  The "slab" in a standard foundation is not actually built as a slab but rather as a thick floor layer.  Seems like that should be fixed.  In the meantime I'm absolutely positive you know this but you can display floor surfaces and use the Delete Surface tool to remove the ones you don't want to see...OR build an actual slab (may have additional benefits to going this route too).

 

I know you prolee thought of all that stuff.  Just throwing it out there for those who might not know any better.  

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Joe,

 

It' like Chief just doesn't have the Slab on the Slab Layer when it's a Foundation Wall instead of a MonoSlab.

 

It doesn't - as I said, it's on the Floor Surfaces layer

 

This is the way it works for me:

Monoslabs are on the Slabs Layer.

Floor slabs on foundation walls are on the Floor Surfaces layer.

Floor finishes are on the Rooms layer.

 

Here is a video:

 

http://screencast.com/t/DULo8pwg

 

EDIT:

I think what is also happening (which I didn't show in the vid) is that the Floor Finish is controlled by 2 layers - the Rooms layer AND the Floor Surfaces layer.

So that if you turn off the display of Floor Surfaces whilst Rooms is toggled on, both the floor finish AND the "slab on foundation walls" will toggle off together - but the mono slab won't toggle off. 

I assume that's because you cant have a floor finish on that type of slab without the slab itself - don't forget they are both being supplied from their own floor.

I further assume that it doesn't work that way with a mono slab is because the mono slab is supplied from the floor below whilst the floor finish is supplied from it's own floor. 

 

Clear as!!! :rolleyes:

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Why can't I get the Floor Slab to show in a Framing Overview when using Foundation Walls?  It shows with a Mono-Slab but not with Foundation Walls.

 

Not sure if this is what you want.  BTW,  for this view the ROOM LAYER and the FLOOR SURFACES LAYER is turned off.

 

Is this a real slab?  Is this a virtual slab?  Do you have the FOUNDATION LAYER turned on?

 

Someone suggested posting  plans to get quick and accurate answers.  You might try that approach.

post-50-0-18050000-1443615617_thumb.png

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Joe,

 

It doesn't - as I said, it's on the Floor Surfaces layer

 

This is the way it works for me:

Monoslabs are on the Slabs Layer.

Floor slabs on foundation walls are on the Floor Surfaces layer.

Floor finishes are on the Rooms layer.

 

Here is a video:

 

http://screencast.com/t/DULo8pwg

 

EDIT:

I think what is also happening (which I didn't show in the vid) is that the Floor Finish is controlled by 2 layers - the Rooms layer AND the Floor Surfaces layer.

So that if you turn off the display of Floor Surfaces whilst Rooms is toggled on, both the floor finish AND the "slab on foundation walls" will toggle off together - but the mono slab won't toggle off. 

I assume that's because you cant have a floor finish on that type of slab without the slab itself - don't forget they are both being supplied from their own floor.

I further assume that it doesn't work that way with a mono slab is because the mono slab is supplied from the floor below whilst the floor finish is supplied from it's own floor. 

 

Clear as!!! :rolleyes:

a pretty good vid by  Glenn,  but still as clear as mud.  

 

There are 4 layers that I can think of that effects what is seen in 3d in regards to floors:

-FLOOR LAYER

-ROOM LAYER

-FOUNDATION LAYER

-SLAB LAYER

 

Note that I mentioned the FOUNDATION LAYER....... take a look at the attachments,  by turning off the FOUNDATION LAYER,  the mono slab will disappear.

post-50-0-43588500-1443616636_thumb.png

post-50-0-92472700-1443616649_thumb.png

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I was assuming that Joe had built a foundation with Walls With Footings and a slab.

Maybe I assumed incorrectly.

 

Scott, assuming no foundation has been built, and if that is a " virtual slab" or a manual slab drawn with one of the slab tools, then it will be on the Slabs layer.

 

And yes, I missed the Foundation layer which controls the foundation walls and footings AND the mono slab - but not the slab built on foundation walls.

It all seems a bit confusing

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I was assuming that Joe had built a foundation with Walls With Footings and a slab.

Maybe I assumed incorrectly.

 

Scott, assuming no foundation has been built, and if that is a " virtual slab" or a manual slab drawn with one of the slab tools, then it will be on the Slabs layer.

I wish he had posted a plan.  These foundations can confuse the heck out of me.  I can do them,  but ....

 

That being said.....  the  plan I showed was an auto build slab foundation and.......  and........

 

I can make the slab disappear by turning off either the SLAB LAYER or the FOUNDATION LAYER.

 

I suppose my main point was,  FOUNDATION LAYER can control the foundation you see in 3D.

 

Truly I am confused.....  the FOUNDATION LAYER can control whether you see a MONO SLAB in 3D,  but.....  it will not control whether you see a mono slab built as ........  oh heck....  I can't put it in words...  if you were to play with it,  dealing with mono slabs created with using room below or mono slabs as not using room below,  you will get different results.

 

It would be interesting to see how CA would teach someone the subtlties of foundations....  I would bet they could not explain it....

 

If my GTM was working,  I could do a vid explaining what I don't know.....  oops,  that might be a very long video.

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Scott, I amended my post a bit whilst you were posting.

After going through this exercise, I think there are more complexities in displaying the various types of footings, foundation walls and slabs than there is in building them!

Joe, how about posting a plan which covers the situation you asked about.

I aint doin any moor widout a plan.

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Ok guys, 

 

Here's a plan.  Glenn's answer was as close as I could get to making it work but it's not ideal.

 

This is not a "MonoSlab" Foundation - it's "Foundation Walls" with a 4" Slab at the top.

With the Floor Surfaces Layer ON and the Rooms Layer OFF I can see the "Slab" but also the 2nd Floor Sheathing and the d%#m "Soffit" at overhangs.

These "Surfaces" are just one layer thick in the Framing Overview.  If CA can make a MonoSlab look right in 3D there should be no reason why a Slab as a part of the "Foundation Wall" shouldn't also look right.

Foundation Example.plan

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Joe,  I was able to get the slab to show in 3d if I went to level 0 and specified mono slab.  However,  I understand that you like to build your mono slabs differently than CA recommends or the way I would build them.  

 

I think if you learned to build mono slabs the way CA works,  you would have fewer issues.

 

 

post-50-0-44839800-1443619940_thumb.png

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Scott,

 

MonoSlabs are not a solution for me.  They don't work the way they should - we've been discussing this since Monoslabs were first introduced.  The only option I have found that is actually viable is to use the Foundation Walls and then add a Slab manually but that's a lot of work and requires even more work if anything is changed.  It should be done automatically with the settings I have for the Foundation.

 

btw, Larry's right about the Structure dbx being a PITA ..... and it extends to the Foundation dbx.

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Joe,  I was able to get the slab to show in 3d if I went to level 0 and specified mono slab.  However,  I understand that you like to build your mono slabs differently than CA recommends or the way I would build them.  

 

I think if you learned to build mono slabs the way CA works,  you would have fewer issues.

 

Scott,

 

Joe isn't creating a mono-slab - it's a frost wall with a slab - two different things and you can't achieve what Joe wants with a mono-slab.

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Scott,

 

MonoSlabs are not a solution for me.  They don't work the way they should - we've been discussing this since Monoslabs were first introduced.  The only option I have found that is actually viable is to use the Foundation Walls and then add a Slab manually but that's a lot of work and requires even more work if anything is changed.  It should be done automatically with the settings I have for the Foundation.

 

btw, Larry's right about the Structure dbx being a PITA ..... and it extends to the Foundation dbx.

You are not clear in regards to what is not working.  If you think the plan you just posted is a better example of a mono slab,  you and I are dealing with different mono slabs.

 

 The mono slabs I build with CA could be improved by giving me by being able to define the SLAB,  STEM WALL,  AND FOOTING in lieu of what I can control now which is THE SLAB and STEM WALL/FOOTING.......  but other than that,  they do a pretty darn good job of showing what I want to show.  

 

The way I see it,  both Perry and I can make the mono slabs work for us,  and we probably do more mono slabs foundations than anybody else  in this universe......  hyperbole is my specialty.

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Scott,

 

Joe isn't creating a mono-slab - it's a frost wall with a slab - two different things and you can't achieve what Joe wants with a mono-slab.

You are confusing the issue,  Joe wants to build a mono slab,  but he does not know how to do it.  We are in SOCAL,  we don't have frost walls...  we would not recognize a frost wall if it hit us over the head.

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You are confusing the issue,  Joe wants to build a mono slab,  but he does not know how to do it.  We are in SOCAL,  we don't have frost walls...  we would not recognize a frost wall if it hit us over the head.

 

Whether you need frost protection or not, what Joe's plan shows is a three-component pour: footing, wall, and interior slab. As you noted CA doesn't provide the dbx controls necessary to create this kind of construction when the Monolithic Slab Foundation box is checked. I've examined your posted images, and they show a very nice mono slab, which isn't what Joe wants. Please post your example plan so I can be educated and understand how you would achieve what Joe wants using a mono-slab.

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Scott,

 

I do work in the Big Bear Lake area and I do need frost walls.  At 7000 ft elevation and temperatures that sometimes get down to -20 F .....  and most of the time I will have a slab only under part of the house because of the terrain.  The mono slab as Chief provides doesn't give us any ability to step foundation walls the way I need to.

 

The mono slabs I build with CA could be improved by giving me by being able to define the SLAB,  STEM WALL,  AND FOOTING in lieu of what I can control now which is THE SLAB and STEM WALL/FOOTING

 

You said it all with that statement.  I've said many times that we need a true "Foundation" rather than a "Room based system"

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....... Please post your example plan so I can be educated and understand how you would achieve what Joe wants using a mono-slab.

 

I can not do what Joe wants.  I was there in the beginning when mono slabs came out.  I requested this in the beginning.  They ignored my request.  I have given up trying to get them to improve it,  now I use what they give me.

 

I can actually step a mono slab footing,  I think I did a vid on it.  I attached a plan and pic of a mono slab with a stepped footing.  

mono slab with step footing 1.plan

post-50-0-16311100-1443623827_thumb.png

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Scott,

 

That's not a stepped footing.  It's just a thick wall with varying depths.  You know full well what I'm talking about.  I know you were involved with the original mono slabs and you seem to have a vested interest in protecting them.  They are not what they should/need to be and IMO they are practically useless in the current state.

 

Even when I have a project that needs a Mono Slab (single pour foundation/slab) I can't use Chief's Monoslab Foundation.  

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Joe you are correct.  CA,  please fix the mono slabs.

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Yes, Scott, you can make the footings as deep as you want but not automatically. As with a lot of things in Chief automatic will only take you so far then you need to turn it off and finish manually

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Scott,

 

That's not a stepped footing.  It's just a thick wall with varying depths.  You know full well what I'm talking about.  I know you were involved with the original mono slabs and you seem to have a vested interest in protecting them.  They are not what they should/need to be and IMO they are practically useless in the current state.

 

Even when I have a project that needs a Mono Slab (single pour foundation/slab) I can't use Chief's Monoslab Foundation.

Of course, all we do is suggest, whether Chief does it is out of our hands. I do slabs every day without problems but not like Joe wants

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This post got WAY off-topic. The original OP issue still remains: how to display an interior slab controlled by the Room>Structure dbx without displaying the subfloor of the framed story above? If you consider the interior slab as a building component it's nothing more than a specialized unfinished subfloor - so having the display controlled by the Floor Surfaces layer makes sense. But lots of folks consider an interior slab as part of the foundation if for no better reason than it's concrete, even if the actual pour occurs after the framing is erected. I'm not sure there's an easy answer, or even what's the best answer.

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I for one think that this particular issue has nothing to do with mono slabs.  It has to do with the "slab" being placed on an inappropriate layer.  Like with many things in Chief, I really think we need more control over what layer different components are placed on. 

 

Another very similar example:  The way foundation walls with pony walls are displayed.  There is no way to separate the automatically built pony wall from the foundation.  They are stuck on the same layer.

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