Random Stacked / Subway Tile Texture / Pattern

[RobUSMC]

We use a lot of glass deco tile in our designs and I could really use tiles that have not only a texture but the pattern file of these randomly stack tiles.  I know the library has stacked glass tiles in the bonus tile ?glass Strip tile" with a random texture but the pattern does not have the random layout, heights or lengths.  Also I have several large format tiles we install on a brick pattern (We very seldom install tile on a standard straight pattern) but again there is no pattern included.  All this is a must for me to show an exact row by row tile layout for the homeowners and my installers.  I also, when needed will go to the job site and do a full scale tile layout. Would be a lot easier to have the exact layout in the plans with the correct textures and patterns.   See attached examples of tiles we use, no pattern tiles and my layout samples.  Any thoughts?  Thanks bunches.  Rob

[Dennis_Gavin]

I think you will have to do what you are doing.  Maybe instead of trying to do the random height width pattern just post a picture

of the tile for that section.  There are just too many variations of tile and installations.

[RobUSMC]

I know.. I've been doing this for years and would like to have a less time consuming way. For black & white wall tile in elevation views it would be nice to be able to apply a fill pattern to a polyline or slab like you can in plan view. When it comes to install, it would be much more helpful to be able to have the correct pattern versus a pretty rendering.  I would assume a custom fill pattern can be imported???

[rlackore]

I would assume a custom fill pattern can be imported???

 

CA uses .pat files for patterns, so import isn't the problem. The problem is that CA doesn't allow us to define the origin point of the pattern so precise positioning of the pattern is impossible.

[RobUSMC]

So much for that idea then.  CA has made great advances since 8.0 but it seems tile with patterns has always been lacking. There are core and bonus tiles in the library where the texture and the pattern don't match.  where they do have random stack glass tile but the pattern shows it as either straight of brick/subway.  With several of the random stacked veneer stone the pattern matches the texture pretty good so not sure why it could not be done with tile versus having a different pattern or in most cases no pattern file at all.  Above my pay grade.

[glennw]

Rob,

CA uses .pat files for patterns, so import isn't the problem. The problem is that CA doesn't allow us to define the origin point of the pattern so precise positioning of the pattern is impossible

 

Not quite correct.

 

Assuming that you can find/create a suitable hatch pattern it is not too hard to locate/move the pattern in an elevation. Admittedly it is a little difficult to do it precisely - but you can get quite close - probably good enough for what you want.

There is no point in using a hatched Polyline because you can't move the hatch pattern - it always relates to the origin.

BUT, if you use a Wall Material Region and assign it a material with your hatch pattern, you can nominate the Horizontal and Vertical Offset for the hatch pattern. 

One problem though, this will change those offsets for that materials hatch pattern throughout the whole plan.

So that if you use that material and it's hatch pattern in WMR one area, any changes to the hatch offsets will be reflected in other WMR using the same material.

 

That's easy to overcome just by copying the material to a new name with different hatch offsets for each instance where you use it.

 

Find or create the hatch pattern you need for the thin random tile pattern and the rest is easy.

 

You should have no problems with sizing or offsetting using the standard brick pattern, stack pattern, etc. tiles.

 

Don't forget that you can always change/add the hatch pattern for a material and then size and offset it as needed. 

You can easily add a hatch pattern to those materials that don't already have one.

 

I am not sure if you need both the pattern and the texture to coincide, but it is possible to set this up.

[TheKitchenAbode]

I've used this technique as described by Glenn and it works fine, as stated it can be a bit finicky in the final alignment. Just have to zoom in and visually check the offset movement. Fortunately not a big need for this here as the trend is shifting strongly towards more structured tile layouts using large format rectified tiles. With these a standard stack layout is usually required as there tends to be a slight curvature/warpage in the tile which causes a lippage issue in brick patterns.

 

Graham

[dshall]

......BUT, if you use a Wall Material Region and assign it a material with your hatch pattern, you can nominate the Horizontal and Vertical Offset for the hatch pattern. 

One problem though, this will change those offsets for that materials hatch pattern throughout the whole plan........

 

This is silly.  It should not be this difficult.  I have clients who want to use CA to do cabinet elevations including designing tile layouts,  but this is a lot of work.

 

BTW,  I thought there was a GLOBAL option which meant that either the change in x & y coordinates changed only that materials in that location or the material throughout the plan.....  or was this only for TEXTURES vs PATTERNS.

 

Somehow CA should make the texture and pattern layout easier to manipulate.  Back in the day,  it was the tile setter who figured this out,  but more and more,   it is us designers who begin the tile layout process.  

[rlackore]

This is silly.  It should not be this difficult.

 

I agree.

 

 

BTW,  I thought there was a GLOBAL option which meant that either the change in x & y coordinates changed only that materials in that location or the material throughout the plan.....  

 

I believe you're thinking of DEFINE MATERIAL>TEXTURE>OFFSET AND ANGLE>GLOBAL SYMBOL MAPPING.

[Joe_Carrick]

This is silly.  It should not be this difficult.  I have clients who want to use CA to do cabinet elevations including designing tile layouts,  but this is a lot of work.

 

BTW,  I thought there was a GLOBAL option which meant that either the change in x & y coordinates changed only that materials in that location or the material throughout the plan.....  or was this only for TEXTURES vs PATTERNS.

 

Somehow CA should make the texture and pattern layout easier to manipulate.  Back in the day,  it was the tile setter who figured this out,  but more and more,   it is us designers who begin the tile layout process.  

The x-y offsets are only available for Textures.  Patterns in Chief are relative to the 0,0 origin.

 

Here are the basics: 

 

Textures can easily be copied and new textures with x/y offsets can be created.  It requires a different texture for each required set of offsets, etc.

 

Patterns are global in Chief based on XHatch definitions.  There is no easy way to create or modify XHatch definitions in Chief.  Probably the easiest way to deal with this would be for Chief to add the x/y offsets of the Pattern to match those of the Texture - but that might not give the desired result so an independent setting is probably needed.

 

In most 2D CAD programs it was common to have a built-in Hatch Pattern definition tool and also a built-in Line Style definition tool.  It was very common practice to have this done graphically.  IOW, the user would draw the 2D objects as a "sample" and then the software would analyze the geometry and create the definition.  Chief doesn't have a graphic definition tool for either Hatch Patterns or for Line Styles.  It does have a Line Style creation tool but it is very limited - only being able to define a set of in-line segments, spaces & text.

 

Line Style creation tools I've used in the past provided for "Off-Line" geometry and beginning and ending terminators.  An example of "Off-Line" would be something similar to the "Batt Insulation" that Chief uses with Auto Detailing.  Another example would be a "Break Line".

[glennw]

Joe,

The x-y offsets are only available for Textures.  Patterns in Chief are relative to the 0,0 origin.

Here are the basics: 

Textures can easily be copied and new textures with x/y offsets can be created.  It requires a different texture for each required set of offsets, etc.

Patterns are global in Chief based on XHatch definitions.  There is no easy way to create or modify XHatch definitions in Chief.  Probably the easiest way to deal with this would be for Chief to add the x/y offsets of the Pattern to match those of the Texture - but that might not give the desired result so an independent setting is probably needed.

 

 

If what you say is correct, then what do these  Offset settings do?

[Joe_Carrick]

Joe,

 

If what you say is correct, then what do these  Offset settings do?

As far as I can tell - nothing at all.  You can use a custom Pattern File but you need a Pattern Definition that works. 

[glennw]

Joe,

 

On my system, they offset the pattern using a Custom Pattern File or Use Material Type as the Pattern Source.

[Joe_Carrick]

OK, I get that to work in an Elevation View (Wall Material Region) but not in Plan (Floor Material Region).

 

But.....  It offsets every instance of that Pattern Globally.  IOW, if you have 2 Wall Material Regions next to each other and you offset the Pattern in one of them you will see that the Pattern has been of offset the same amount so that they line up.  What is happening is that the origin of the Hatch Pattern has been globally moved.  All instances of that Hatch Pattern in the View will have been moved.  The offset is not relative to the object - it's relative to the 0,0 origin of the Plan.

 

You can of course copy the Material and make offsets for both the Texture and the Pattern - they do not automatically match - but they are both still relative to the Plan Origin, not the object they are assigned to.

[rlackore]

Better control has been requested several times, including here:

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/index.php?/topic/2150-global-and-local-control-of-origin-for-display-of-line-styles-patterns-etc/?hl=pattern

 

Maybe bumping this up in the suggestion forum will get CA working on a solution.

[glennw]

Joe,

 

That is what I said back in post #6.

Thanks for confirming.