5Design Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 My goal is to be able to supply the material takeoffs with my designs for builders / contractors. I have been manually adjusting framing for the structural plans, but unless there has been great progress made in v14 with material reporting, it's just a headache. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, 5Design said: My goal is to be able to supply the material takeoffs with my designs for builders / contractors. I have been manually adjusting framing for the structural plans, but unless there has been great progress made in v14 with material reporting, it's just a headache. Thanks! Do you really want the liability of a possible miscalculation? The material list is only as accurate as the model so you must be very precise in what you show. If I was a builder or contractor I might use the material list - but as an Architect (or even as a general contractor) I let subs & suppliers do their own takeoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneDavis Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Describe your manual adjustments to framing, and point out how Chief built it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Design Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 16 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said: Do you really want the liability of a possible miscalculation? The material list is only as accurate as the model so you must be very precise in what you show. If I was a builder or contractor I might use the material list - but as an Architect (or even as a general contractor) I let subs & suppliers do their own takeoffs. I offer estimating services, as well. And as an architect, there's no reason the model shouldn't be accurate. That's why I'm looking at alternatives to Chief all around. Tired of the auto- generated nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Design Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 10 hours ago, GeneDavis said: Describe your manual adjustments to framing, and point out how Chief built it wrong. To my knowledge, Chief doesn't offer built-in span calcs for joists and rafters. Even the headers (that fall into standard tables) are hit and miss based on my settings. Beyond that, Chief still doesn't get that you need different material for, plates for instance. Chief also doesn't know what a patio header is. And trying to organize the material list so that it works is pretty much impossible from my experience. So, why even bother including something if you're not going to make it work? I suppose the visuals can help avoid framing conflicts, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Terry, You have to specify the structural member sizes. Chief is not going to do that automatically. If you specify the correct sizes and materials the material list should be accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzira Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 What is a "patio header"? Is that a regional term? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneDavis Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I get the plates I specify. Why don't you? Name us the software for drawing plans that sizes rafters and floor joists. What are your expectations, exactly? Whatever you frame with Chief, it counts. Do this. Draw a one floor 30 x 50 rectangle, frame the floor only, do a material list, screencap it and show it to us, and tell us how it's wrong. And attach the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Design Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 36 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said: Terry, You have to specify the structural member sizes. Chief is not going to do that automatically. If you specify the correct sizes and materials the material list should be accurate. Understood. But can you do that for each room? I just think it should be programmed in based on current span tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneDavis Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 So you want to go with 2x8s for the pantry and 2x12s for the adjacent kitchen? Who frames like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Design Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 8 minutes ago, GeneDavis said: I get the plates I specify. Why don't you? Name us the software for drawing plans that sizes rafters and floor joists. What are your expectations, exactly? Whatever you frame with Chief, it counts. Do this. Draw a one floor 30 x 50 rectangle, frame the floor only, do a material list, screencap it and show it to us, and tell us how it's wrong. And attach the plan. My comment on the plates was regarding the reporting. If I select buy lengths it will sometimes use pre-cut stud lengths. And I'm not aware of such a software, which is why I was looking for suggestions. And a 30x50ft floor framing isn't a challenge, it's an entire 7000ft house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Design Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, GeneDavis said: So you want to go with 2x8s for the pantry and 2x12s for the adjacent kitchen? Who frames like that? Ceiling joists, not floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Design Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 35 minutes ago, Gawdzira said: What is a "patio header"? Is that a regional term? Or porch header. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Terry, I do most of my own structural calcs and specify what needs to be used. I use "Vitruvius StruCalc" as my structural software. As an Architect I am licensed to stamp & sign the calcs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I hear that Planswift makes a good companion for Chief https://www.planswift.com/estimating/framing-estimating-software/ Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Design Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, lbuttery said: I hear that Planswift makes a good companion for Chief https://www.planswift.com/estimating/framing-estimating-software/ Lew Interesting. I knew they were supposed to roll that out at some point, but had forgotten about it. Will look into. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Design Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 4 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said: Terry, I do most of my own structural calcs and specify what needs to be used. I use "Vitruvius StruCalc" as my structural software. As an Architect I am licensed to stamp & sign the calcs. Yeah, if there's anything that goes beyond some simple beam calcs, I get an engineer to do it. Really just wanted to be able to automate the takeoff so I can offer it as a perk to wrangle up new business. Thanks for the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValleyGuy Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 17 hours ago, 5Design said: Yeah, if there's anything that goes beyond some simple beam calcs, I get an engineer to do it. Really just wanted to be able to automate the takeoff so I can offer it as a perk to wrangle up new business. Terry, I tried doing this exact thing, added value (and revenue) for what seemed like an easy list to supply from CA. There are all kinds of hurtles to overcome and with some effort it can work out very nicely. I have compared my complete material list supplied by CA against a building supplier's take off estimate and the items and quantities were virtually identical once the waste factor formula was included in CA's list. In some cases, I actually built more complete models and had a more complete list than the building supplier provided. The largest hurtle is that most people don't trust your list well enough and want to double check it (suppliers quoting #'s and pricing to contractors, and contractors quoting pricing to clients). Everyone wants to point fingers when the numbers are out of line, and if you gave the quantities - they point at you. As there are many different ways to physically build a house, our drawings may not match the way being used and therefore discrepancies will occur. When you add the disclaimer that you aren't to be held responsible for errors or omissions.... coupled with the fact that we draw few (if any) fasteners, adhesives, tapes, caulking, grout, shims, wind bracing, etc, and manually add these to the material list as 'allowances', you can understand why contractors are skeptical toward our list. The fact that most clients haven't made all the final item choices when most plans are drawn doesn't help either. Bottom line, if you want a list, no matter if it is only the framing material, you will need to make the list user friendly and that is a lot more effort on your part than what its worth in revenue or customer interest. Material take offs are supplied free of charge by the building suppliers around here and free is pretty low revenue, so the added value to wrangle up new business is a costly and very time consuming venture for my business. Suggestion: I abandoned the material list perk and spent more time learning how to make walk through movies. Sometimes I don't even frame the complete house any more and use that time to make a 60 second movie that wows the client. That is turning out to be minimal work with minimal risk and maximum impact. With the contractors, I've gained interest and new business by 'walking' them through the build via 3D looking at the things that they are interested in. Just offering it to them if they get in a pinch is more added value than I first thought. I've had two contractors in the last few months use this, one came to my office in person and the other via face time. Both were over the moon for the 25 min of my time and CA's 3D modelling ability. Just something to consider, Shayne 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rpadge Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 I don't develop super accurate 3d models for my business, the models are reasonably accurate for my purposes (creating working drawings), but I do offer the material takeoff to my builders with a disclaimer, that they understand it is not 100%. They use it as a double check for their own (and their subs) takeoffs. So I do offer it as another benefit of my services, but I do not support it, or charge for it. I don't offer it to the homeowner clients, I think its just asking for a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Design Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 33 minutes ago, ValleyGuy said: Terry, I tried doing this exact thing, added value (and revenue) for what seemed like an easy list to supply from CA. There are all kinds of hurtles to overcome and with some effort it can work out very nicely. I have compared my complete material list supplied by CA against a building supplier's take off estimate and the items and quantities were virtually identical once the waste factor formula was included in CA's list. In some cases, I actually built more complete models and had a more complete list than the building supplier provided. The largest hurtle is that most people don't trust your list well enough and want to double check it (suppliers quoting #'s and pricing to contractors, and contractors quoting pricing to clients). Everyone wants to point fingers when the numbers are out of line, and if you gave the quantities - they point at you. As there are many different ways to physically build a house, our drawings may not match the way being used and therefore discrepancies will occur. When you add the disclaimer that you aren't to be held responsible for errors or omissions.... coupled with the fact that we draw few (if any) fasteners, adhesives, tapes, caulking, grout, shims, wind bracing, etc, and manually add these to the material list as 'allowances', you can understand why contractors are skeptical toward our list. The fact that most clients haven't made all the final item choices when most plans are drawn doesn't help either. Bottom line, if you want a list, no matter if it is only the framing material, you will need to make the list user friendly and that is a lot more effort on your part than what its worth in revenue or customer interest. Material take offs are supplied free of charge by the building suppliers around here and free is pretty low revenue, so the added value to wrangle up new business is a costly and very time consuming venture for my business. Suggestion: I abandoned the material list perk and spent more time learning how to make walk through movies. Sometimes I don't even frame the complete house any more and use that time to make a 60 second movie that wows the client. That is turning out to be minimal work with minimal risk and maximum impact. With the contractors, I've gained interest and new business by 'walking' them through the build via 3D looking at the things that they are interested in. Just offering it to them if they get in a pinch is more added value than I first thought. I've had two contractors in the last few months use this, one came to my office in person and the other via face time. Both were over the moon for the 25 min of my time and CA's 3D modelling ability. Just something to consider, Shayne Very interesting. Will definitely considerthis. Thanks for your feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValleyGuy Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 30 minutes ago, 5Design said: Very interesting. Will definitely considerthis. Thanks for your feedback! You're welcome. If you do plan to dabble with the materials list, get a hold of me and I will gladly share some of the pitfalls and solutions to over come them with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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