Slow plan suggestions?

[LightHouse_Doug]

Hi everyone, 

 

I have read a number of threads about dealing with slow plans, and have tried the following: 

 

1) deleted all non-chief objects (furniture+fixtures) from both the plan and my user library and emptied the trash

2) set my undo/redo setting to 4 

 

This may have improved the performance a tiny bit, but not much. It's still very slow and laggy in plan when doing common actions like moving walls, adding doors/windows etc  . I have uploaded the plan to google drive and linked it because it's too big to zip and upload here. Any ideas? Thanks!

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_xB67MbXV3OuxVWC3B8Pm5Bb9Xpkzd8f/view?usp=sharing

 

 

EDIT: I should add that I don't think it's a computer problem - it handles most plans fine. Specs here: 

 

HP Omen laptop

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10750H CPU @ 2.60GHz   2.59 GH

16.0 GB (15.8 GB usable)

64-bit operating system, x64-based processor

Intel Optane+477GB SSD

[KenL-sdd]

Doug,

I believe the issue is the plan size due to the Cad Details. Your plan file is 326 meg as you posted it. Deleting the cad details it becomes 82 meg.

Since all of your cad details are lines and pictures, you may consider having them in a separate file.

[Michael_Gia]

I’m just going to add something that is often overlooked with respect to performance, and that is the right pixel density of your monitor (ppi).

 

I improved the speed of my little MacBook immensely when I ditched my 27” 4K monitor for a 27” 1440p monitor. 
 

The reason is that both Windows and MacOS need to output to a monitor of either 110ppi or 220ppi, or you are going to be unnecessarily burdening your system. 
 

A 1440p 27” monitor has a ppi of 110, this is optimal for performance. 

[LightHouse_Doug]

9 minutes ago, KenL-sdd said:

Doug,

I believe the issue is the plan size due to the Cad Details. Your plan file is 326 meg as you posted it. Deleting the cad details it becomes 82 meg.

Since all of your cad details are lines and pictures, you may consider having them in a separate file.

Hi Ken, thank you for catching that! How did you delete all the CAD details? The only way I can seem to delete them is one by one in the CAD block management dbx, which would take a few hours... 

[KenL-sdd]

Doug,

I believe the issue is the plan size due to the Cad Details. Your plan file is 326 meg as you posted it. Deleting the cad details it becomes 82 meg.

Since all of your cad details are lines and pictures, you may consider having them in a separate file.

In your detail 1 under cad details all of your walls and hatch patterns are all lines. This is part of what is creating the huge file. I try not to send walls with such complex patterns to a cad detail.

[KenL-sdd]

4 minutes ago, LightHouse_Doug said:

Hi Ken, thank you for catching that! How did you delete all the CAD details? The only way I can seem to delete them is one by one in the CAD block management dbx, which would take a few hours... 

Go to cad details under the project browser.  You can delete all at one time or each one on its own.

[LightHouse_Doug]

1 minute ago, KenL-sdd said:

Go to cad details under the project browser.  You can delete all at one time or each one on its own.

Well, that seems to have solved it. Thank you very much Ken! It presents a whole other set of problems to have to keep CAD details in a separate plan, but it's good to know that there is at least a solution to the slowness. 

[KenL-sdd]

1 minute ago, LightHouse_Doug said:

Well, that seems to have solved it. Thank you very much Ken! It presents a whole other set of problems to have to keep CAD details in a separate plan, but it's good to know that there is at least a solution to the slowness. 

I try not to send walls with such complex patterns to a cad detail. Keep them as walls.

[LightHouse_Doug]

4 minutes ago, KenL-sdd said:

I try not to send walls with such complex patterns to a cad detail. Keep them as walls.

Not sure I understand-  which CAD details are you referring to? 

[KenL-sdd]

8 minutes ago, LightHouse_Doug said:

Not sure I understand-  which CAD details are you referring to? 

Here you go.

Edited December 12, 2022 by KenL-sdd
The walls with hatch patterns are creating a line for each piece of the hatch pattern

[LightHouse_Doug]

25 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said:

I’m just going to add something that is often overlooked with respect to performance, and that is the right pixel density of your monitor (ppi).

 

I improved the speed of my little MacBook immensely when I ditched my 27” 4K monitor for a 27” 1440p monitor. 
 

The reason is that both Windows and MacOS need to output to a monitor of either 110ppi or 220ppi, or you are going to be unnecessarily burdening your system. 
 

A 1440p 27” monitor has a ppi of 110, this is optimal for performance. 

Interesting, thanks, so your monitor had too high of a PPI? I calculated my laptop monitor to be 143 PPI.

[LightHouse_Doug]

12 minutes ago, KenL-sdd said:

Here you go.

Ah I understand, thanks. 

[robdyck]

1 hour ago, LightHouse_Doug said:

I should add that I don't think it's a computer problem

This is correct. A bit of investigation into this file reveals that you don't need assistance with design (the house looks great) but you could use major improvements to your workflow within Chief. Altering your working methods to suit how Chief is designed to function would drastically improve your computer performance and probably cut your time in half, conservatively speaking.

[KenL-sdd]

3 minutes ago, robdyck said:

This is correct. A bit of investigation into this file reveals that you don't need assistance with design (the house looks great) but you could use major improvements to your workflow within Chief. Altering your working methods to suit how Chief is designed to function would drastically improve your computer performance and probably cut your time in half, conservatively speaking.

+1

[LightHouse_Doug]

6 minutes ago, robdyck said:

This is correct. A bit of investigation into this file reveals that you don't need assistance with design (the house looks great) but you could use major improvements to your workflow within Chief. Altering your working methods to suit how Chief is designed to function would drastically improve your computer performance and probably cut your time in half, conservatively speaking.

Thanks  How would you suggest better managing CAD details? For the most part, they are all needed for this plan. I could keep them in a separate plan, but that is a bit of a logistical nightmare.

[KenL-sdd]

21 minutes ago, LightHouse_Doug said:

Thanks  How would you suggest better managing CAD details? For the most part, they are all needed for this plan. I could keep them in a separate plan, but that is a bit of a logistical nightmare.

You are sending elevations, floor plans, and framing details to cad details, IMHO. This is a BIG No NO in 99% of the cases. Work with live elevations and floor plans. Each line takes up space in memory. I fought Chief until I took classes to understand the program and how it works and watched videos. I suggested using separate plan files just to speed up this plan.

Classes one on one helped me to understand how to use Chief. There are people in this forum that can teach you, or Chief themselves.

If you want to message me I will give you a few names. I'm taking a week long class in February and looking forward to it. The classes were and are still a good investment for me.

PS: Premier X14 is far superior to X12

Best wishes!

 

 

[Kbird1]

24 minutes ago, KenL-sdd said:

PS: Premier X14 is far superior to X12

 

The caveat being you have the hardware to run it, specifically a GPU with RTX capabilities like the Nvidia 2000 or 3000 Series. ( and making sure chief uses it if on a Laptop )

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-03140/forcing-chief-architect-programs-to-use-a-specific-graphics-card-in-windows-10-11.html

 

Good catch on the CAD Ken, Chief has always been slow when it come to CAD , thousands and thousands of CAD lines really slow things down.

 

M.

[KenL-sdd]

1 minute ago, Kbird1 said:

 

The caveat being you have the hardware to run it, specifically a GPU with RTX capabilities like the Nvidia 2000 or 3000 Series. ( and making sure chief uses it if on a Laptop )

 

Good catch on the CAD ken , Chief has always been slow when it come to CAD , thousands and thousands of CAD lines really slow things down.

 

M.

Mick,

You also had a good catch on the hardware! I had to buy a new laptop to run x14 in the field due to an older video card. Oh well it was a great laptop for 10 years....

[Michael_Gia]

2 hours ago, LightHouse_Doug said:

Interesting, thanks, so your monitor had too high of a PPI? I calculated my laptop monitor to be 143 PPI.

That’s correct. Too high of a ppi. 
 

A surprising result was that the higher ppi produces “fuzzier text” 

 

When I downgraded to 1440p the text cleared up. 
 

The lag produced when using a ppi that is not either 110 or 220 is from the processors having to translate the image on screen at 60hz

 

Of course, I’m giving you my layman’s interpretation of what occurs but it’s an issue that’s easy to research once you know what your looking for. 
 

Also make sure you’re connecting your monitors with usb-c or even better a displayport cable. 

[robdyck]

2 hours ago, LightHouse_Doug said:

How would you suggest better managing CAD details

Without getting too long-winded here I'll provide some basic observations.

For almost every 'plan' view drawing, you should use a Saved Plan View that is accompanied by a coordinating Layer Set and Default Set.

For almost every Elevation and Section View, you should use a saved Cross Section camera and add any CAD work, dimensions and text to these camera views. These would be located where you currently have section callouts.

CAD Details should then be reserved for supplementary informational drawings that are not necessarily part of the 3d model and for your own sketching / planning work.

 

[GeneDavis]

And save the framing for dead last.  Model everything to perfection, solve all issues with surfacing, intersects, etc., get all roof, soffit, fascia, all the rest to model right so you are ready for the 3D, do lighting, then populate each room one at a time for your inside renders, do the shots and save, then delete the furnishings.  This way you only have one room at a time with the hi poly furniture.  It's like staging a house for photos.  The furnishings are there for the photo shoot, and then go back in the truck.

 

When finished with interior renders, go outside and do your terrain and features and plants, then do your outside renderings and save shots.  Then delete all the landscape stuff like plants and trees.

 

Only when all this is done, do you get into framing, which includes all the items like steel, hangers, etc.  You'll need all this done for your structural plans and section views.

 

If you want furniture elements in the 2D plan views used in the con docs, use 2D CAD so the spaces are all understood by those viewing plans, or just leave that all out like most of us do.

 

I won't repeat what others have said about SPVs and CAD details and default sets and live views, all of which make your Chief life easier and faster.

 

Your model is tres cool, but there are some waterslides in the roofscape where I would consider cricketing at bottoms to avoid Ian-type surges (I'm in SW FL) against those walls.

[LightHouse_Doug]

18 hours ago, robdyck said:

Without getting too long-winded here I'll provide some basic observations.

For almost every 'plan' view drawing, you should use a Saved Plan View that is accompanied by a coordinating Layer Set and Default Set.

For almost every Elevation and Section View, you should use a saved Cross Section camera and add any CAD work, dimensions and text to these camera views. These would be located where you currently have section callouts.

CAD Details should then be reserved for supplementary informational drawings that are not necessarily part of the 3d model and for your own sketching / planning work.

 

Hi Rob, 

This is actually a very old plan (the design started 7 years ago, believe it or not...). We now use all of the features you mention extensively- saved plan views tied to layer sets and default sets are a life saver!  This plan was just too complicated and we were too time crunched to re-draw the whole thing correctly once we started implementing those features.

 

However, the one place where we still find it necessary to use CAD details extensively are sections. I have tried to keep the sections tied to the saved cross section views, but in x12 I haven't been able to do the level of detailing required. If this is something that has changed in X14, I would be very happy to hear it, and would make upgrading worth the cost. 

 

The problem I have found with using a live cross section view is mainly that dimensioning is a huge pain (won't dimension to the right lines, laggy compared to CAD detail, especially in a complicated plan), and that there isn't the same kind of detailed control over fills. 

 

I  have attached a couple examples of the kind of section detailing that we just can't achieve in a live view, at least in X12. Is this kind of detailing possible in X14? We need to be able to show the actual aluminum window extrusion, fills for all the wall layers, etc. 

 

Throwing in a current progress pic  

 

 

 

[GeneDavis]

Start building a file called CAD Details. 

 

That is all the file will contain.  You only need the CAD details when producing con docs, so your file is only open when needing to send a detail to layout.

 

The progress photo raises a q with me.  Was this started years ago as maybe a one bed tiny house with the intent of later adding on to make it a 4000-footer with all the other spaces?  Because why would there be construction progress with you still working on the plans?

[robdyck]

2 hours ago, LightHouse_Doug said:

I  have attached a couple examples of the kind of section detailing that we just can't achieve in a live view, at least in X12

We're on the same page here Doug. Those types of details are usually at a larger scale and not part of the model, so a CAD detail is quite normal.

For a section camera, I'm referring to a building section view, usually at 1/4" scale (or similar scale to the floor plan); a more general drawing, not overly detailed. I never have any issues dimensioning in those views and I don't think I've used a cad section drawing in probably around 15- 20 years. Gotta love it when you start referring to time in decades...

[LightHouse_Doug]

17 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

Start building a file called CAD Details. 

 

That is all the file will contain.  You only need the CAD details when producing con docs, so your file is only open when needing to send a detail to layout.

 

The progress photo raises a q with me.  Was this started years ago as maybe a one bed tiny house with the intent of later adding on to make it a 4000-footer with all the other spaces?  Because why would there be construction progress with you still working on the plans?

Thanks for the advice Gene. I don't think we can be quite as disciplined with the design process as you suggest, but I appreciate the general strategy.

 

The project is in two phases- we actually built that finished part as an addition to an existing house that the client was living in, then he moved into the new addition (a "guest wing"), we tore down the old house and are now framing the main house. He wanted to be able to stay on site during the whole project and live with the finishes he chose for the guest wing before making decisions on the main house... you can imagine the fun logistics involved  And we do have crickets in the places where a roof slopes toward a wall, and on the butterfly roof, they just didn't all make it into the model.