Chief Crashing at Standard Render on New Alienware X17 R2 Laptop

[robdyck]

On 3/18/2022 at 6:30 AM, kwhitt said:

Well, here I am at the beach on the first day using it

You have stated the problem right here and the answer couldn't be more clear!

[Electromen]

Questions:

1. Did you update the Drivers through NVIDIA or Dell?

2. Is your Alienware Notebook using Hybrid Power?

[kwhitt]

4 hours ago, 65Shelby said:

KWhitt
Did you get the two PLAN files I sent last week?  Were they able to work without error?

JSneller

J - Sorry, just seeing this.  I don't get PM notifications for some reason.  I am unable to render the sent file using the standard render - it crashes every time.  Is this something you are able to do on your laptop?  I found an older version of my file when I got back to the office today.  I am able to open and move around in 3D space, but every so often it crashes.

 

This is the first laptop I have ever owned.  I have three very powerful workstations and I'm starting to get the feeling I am expecting too much from the laptop.  It's disappointing as I forked out almost $5k for this machine.

 

Tech support has sent over some other things to try; however, I'm not hopeful.  Someone mentioned this being a Windows 11 issue which is unfortunate as it's not possible to downgrade to Windows 10,

 

There could possibly be something  wrong with this machine as well.  While sitting idle with no apps running, I can hear the CPU churning away.  Further, it seems to run hot all the time.  Here again, I do not know what to expect from a laptop.

 

I'm back home this week, so will use a machine that I know works.  In my free time, I'll keep researching the issues with this laptop.

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Kevin

[kwhitt]

1 hour ago, robdyck said:

You have stated the problem right here and the answer couldn't be more clear!

LOL!  You're probably right.  It didn't work so well at the office today either.

[kwhitt]

1 hour ago, Electromen said:

Questions:

1. Did you update the Drivers through NVIDIA or Dell?

2. Is your Alienware Notebook using Hybrid Power?

 Greg - thanks for the reply.  I downloaded the drivers from NVidia.  I tried two that tech support recommended - one for desktop and one for notebook.  Not sure of the difference as the series number was the same.  Neither worked too well.

 

I'm not sure I know enough to answer your second question.  The specs of the laptop are in my signature below.  If this doesn't answer the question, what do I look for?

 

Kevin

 

[bdillard1]

It sounded as if they thought it was just that one file - any progress there?

 

If you can't receive PMs, you could just use one drive or some other sharing site to post the file here.   You could try PM'ing me or someone else who has offered to help with the info.

 

The good news is you can upgrade your computer from Windows 11 to Windows 10 if you like for free if you have a thumb drive with 8 or more GB (it will need to be empty as you'll format it for the win 10 install).   The downside is you'll need to reinstall your applications and updates all over again.

[kwhitt]

8 minutes ago, bdillard1 said:

It sounded as if they thought it was just that one file - any progress there?

 

If you can't receive PMs, you could just use one drive or some other sharing site to post the file here.   You could try PM'ing me or someone else who has offered to help with the info.

 

The good news is you can upgrade your computer from Windows 11 to Windows 10 if you like for free if you have a thumb drive with 8 or more GB (it will need to be empty as you'll format it for the win 10 install).   The downside is you'll need to reinstall your applications and updates all over again.

bdillard - thanks for the reply.  How is it I can switch from Windows 11 to Windows 10 for free?  I've got several 16GB hard drives, so storage is no problem.

 

I would appreciate someone with a laptop taking a look at this file for me.  I don't think it's the file as tech support had no problem.  It's looking more and more like an issue with the laptop or my expectations are too high.  I have a tendency to use some very high-res models and textures which are no problem on my workstations.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8rnlild96wgjaht/Untitled 1.zip?dl=0

 

 

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, kwhitt said:

There could possibly be something  wrong with this machine as well.  While sitting idle with no apps running, I can hear the CPU churning away.  Further, it seems to run hot all the time.  Here again, I do not know what to expect from a laptop.

 

 

I had a MSI Laptop doing something similar, so I returned it and got the Asus in my Signature instead, as I had a concern the CPU wasn't properly installed with the required TIM.  ( Thermal Interface Material )

 

M. 

[kwhitt]

16 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

I had a MSI Laptop doing something similar, so I returned it and got the Asus in my Signature instead, as I had a concern the CPU wasn't properly installed with the required TIM.  ( Thermal Interface Material )

 

M. 

Hey Mick.  I hope that's not the case.  I really wanted this machine to work and the price was outrageous.  I guess I'll call Dell support again.  The second day I owned it, i thought something was amiss, so had them run diagnostics remotely.  Of course, the check came up clean according to them.  I don't think they'll be much help optimizing a software like Chief.  It would be nice if stuff just worked!  I've never owned a laptop, so don't know really what to expect.  I was hoping someone would take my test file for a run.  If successful on other machines, I'll know the problem is with my system.  Hope all is well with you!

[MarkMc]

1 hour ago, kwhitt said:

I would appreciate someone with a laptop taking a look at this file for me

Opened your plan on the laptop, opened 4 of your cameras, moved around, switched one to RTRT- no problems, no fans or noise on mine. Columns on right show maximum temperature hit.

Issue could be Win 11. A quick search shows that  apparently there are ways to downgrade to 10 Here's one  I didn't check them all.

 

Back when I ran Dell Precisions I had one that cooked and got them to swap out the MOBO and fans since those were not running. BUT FWIW I had the thermal protection upgraded on this laptop with upgrade paste and thermal pads (and Clevos are good at cooling) when I got it

[Electromen]

2 hours ago, kwhitt said:

 Greg - thanks for the reply.  I downloaded the drivers from NVidia.  I tried two that tech support recommended - one for desktop and one for notebook.  Not sure of the difference as the series number was the same.  Neither worked too well.

 

I'm not sure I know enough to answer your second question.  The specs of the laptop are in my signature below.  If this doesn't answer the question, what do I look for?

 

Kevin

 

In the Notes for the NVIDIA Driver for your laptop, the  NVIDIA official site states:

 

1.  "Notebooks supporting Hybrid Power technology are not supported (NVIDIA Optimus technology is supported)."

I looked up you computer and it looks like it does have Hybrid Power,  This uses both the onboard video and the NIVIDIA at the same time when the battery has enough charge or the computer is plugged in.  This can be enabled or disabled.  When using Chief, it should be disabled.  Since I don't have an X17 R2, I'm not sure how that's done.

 

2. "Although GeForce Game Ready Drivers and NVIDIA Studio Drivers can be installed on supported notebook GPUs, the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) provides certified drivers for your specific notebook on their website. NVIDIA recommends that you check with your notebook OEM for recommended software updates for your notebook."

The Alienware X17 R2 Driver supplied by Dell is HERE.  Since the Dell's download size is larger than NVIDIA's, maybe they added something to the driver or maybe  it's a different version????

 

Try that.  I would do one at a time, so that troubleshooting steps are isolated.

[65Shelby]

1 hour ago, kwhitt said:

I would appreciate someone with a laptop taking a look at this file for me. 

Kevin I was able to view your PLAN with no issues.  Very smooth, very quick.  Both Standard....


....and RT....

 

May have already been asked but did you go into the Nvidia console and tell it to open CA with nVidia GPU?

JSnell

[65Shelby]

Kev, check your PMs again.
JSnell

[kwhitt]

1 hour ago, MarkMc said:

Opened your plan on the laptop, opened 4 of your cameras, moved around, switched one to RTRT- no problems, no fans or noise on mine. Columns on right show maximum temperature hit.

Issue could be Win 11. A quick search shows that  apparently there are ways to downgrade to 10 Here's one  I didn't check them all.

 

Back when I ran Dell Precisions I had one that cooked and got them to swap out the MOBO and fans since those were not running. BUT FWIW I had the thermal protection upgraded on this laptop with upgrade paste and thermal pads (and Clevos are good at cooling) when I got it

Thanks Mark.  I appreciate you checking it and providing the Windows 10 link.  It must be something with my laptop and/or Windows 10.  Kevin

[kwhitt]

1 hour ago, Electromen said:

In the Notes for the NVIDIA Driver for your laptop, the  NVIDIA official site states:

 

1.  "Notebooks supporting Hybrid Power technology are not supported (NVIDIA Optimus technology is supported)."

I looked up you computer and it looks like it does have Hybrid Power,  This uses both the onboard video and the NIVIDIA at the same time when the battery has enough charge or the computer is plugged in.  This can be enabled or disabled.  When using Chief, it should be disabled.  Since I don't have an X17 R2, I'm not sure how that's done.

 

2. "Although GeForce Game Ready Drivers and NVIDIA Studio Drivers can be installed on supported notebook GPUs, the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) provides certified drivers for your specific notebook on their website. NVIDIA recommends that you check with your notebook OEM for recommended software updates for your notebook."

The Alienware X17 R2 Driver supplied by Dell is HERE.  Since the Dell's download size is larger than NVIDIA's, maybe they added something to the driver or maybe  it's a different version????

 

Try that.  I would do one at a time, so that troubleshooting steps are isolated.

Wow.  Thanks Greg.  I'll look into disabling the Hybrid Power tomorrow and try Dell's version of the driver.  Thanks again.

[bdillard1]

21 hours ago, kwhitt said:

bdillard - thanks for the reply.  How is it I can switch from Windows 11 to Windows 10 for free?  I've got several 16GB hard drives, so storage is no problem.

 

I would appreciate someone with a laptop taking a look at this file for me.  I don't think it's the file as tech support had no problem.  It's looking more and more like an issue with the laptop or my expectations are too high.  I have a tendency to use some very high-res models and textures which are no problem on my workstations.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8rnlild96wgjaht/Untitled 1.zip?dl=0

 

 

If you go to Windows 10 download you'll find the media creation tool - create the USB bootable option.   When you reboot select boot options before it says starting windows (usually F12).   Then select to boot off USB and it will start the windows 10 install.   Remember this will wipe out any files, software ANYTHING on your hard drive so make sure you can reinstall any software and files you need as they will not be on the thumb drive or the hard drive any more.   I'd also suggest before reformatting - go to the downloads for your computer on the support page and get the network drivers in advance just in case they are not a standard part of windows install.   Might as well get any drivers in advance.

 

You could try an inplace upgrade that keeps everything but frankly I hate the way computers arrive with tons of "support" files, and mcaffee or norton and other junk slowing it down.

[Kbird1]

25 minutes ago, bdillard1 said:

If you go to Windows 10 download you'll find the media creation tool - create the USB bootable option.   When you reboot select boot options before it says starting windows (usually F12).   Then select to boot off USB and it will start the windows 10 install.   Remember this will wipe out any files, software ANYTHING on your hard drive so make sure you can reinstall any software and files you need as they will not be on the thumb drive or the hard drive any more.   I'd also suggest before reformatting - go to the downloads for your computer on the support page and get the network drivers in advance just in case they are not a standard part of windows install.   Might as well get any drivers in advance.

 

You could try an inplace upgrade that keeps everything but frankly I hate the way computers arrive with tons of "support" files, and mcaffee or norton and other junk slowing it down.

 

On a Laptop you may need to disable Secure Boot in the Bios 1st as well , or it won't / may not boot from a USB Drive.

 

M.

[kwhitt]

@bdillard1

@Kbird1

 

Thanks guys.  I am still struggling with this laptop and Windows 11.  After consulting  with someone who looked into my system today, it is recommended that I return the laptop and order a Dell Precision which is more geared towards Architectural work and not gaming.  Chief just will not run smoothly on this laptop and I should have done more research prior to purchasing.  The new Precision will have Windows 10 installed.  Thanks again for all the advice.  Kevin

[MarkMc]

24 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

it is recommended that I return the laptop and order a Dell Precision which is more geared towards Architectural work and not gaming

FWIW, when I first switched to Chief I'd been running Precisions for several years. After just about a year I switched to a gaming machine (clevo/sager) glad I did and would not think of swapping back. For Chief gaming machines work better, now if you run Autocad or Solid works then you will see "some" benefit but Chief will NOT run as well. Image showing one one of the Better? cards in a precision against a 3080

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, kwhitt said:

@bdillard1

@Kbird1

 

Thanks guys.  I am still struggling with this laptop and Windows 11.  After consulting  with someone who looked into my system today, it is recommended that I return the laptop and order a Dell Precision which is more geared towards Architectural work and not gaming.  Chief just will not run smoothly on this laptop and I should have done more research prior to purchasing.  The new Precision will have Windows 10 installed.  Thanks again for all the advice.  Kevin

 

Like Mark I would not go with the Dell Precision either, with Mark's help I went through 7 laptops before getting one that worked ( almost ) as it should, all of them had weird issues , like with MSI, (2) with USB ports not working , (1) overheating doing nothing at Idle, an Acer that came with a charger that wasn't Acer's ( Amazon ), a ProStar Clevo, (which I liked) that had Hardware WHEA errors continuously etc etc, which they couldn't fix, so ya just have to have faith and buy from a place with a no questions asked Return Policy  

 

Gigabyte has some nice models as does Asus currently and with your budget it should be top of the Line, but Xotic, HID Evolution and a few others Mark has used do the Sager/Clevos and I believe Rene Rabbit got a Eluktronics Laptop recently , so perhaps send him a PM.

 

M.

[kwhitt]

34 minutes ago, MarkMc said:

FWIW, when I first switched to Chief I'd been running Precisions for several years. After just about a year I switched to a gaming machine (clevo/sager) glad I did and would not think of swapping back. For Chief gaming machines work better, now if you run Autocad or Solid works then you will see "some" benefit but Chief will NOT run as well. Image showing one one of the Better? cards in a precision against a 3080

Thanks Mark.  It is my understanding that the A5000 is a newer generation RTX.  The Precision machine I'm looking into has the A5000 or A4000 as an option.  I had an IT pro look at the system today and Chief definitely does not run properly on this laptop using Windows11.  Every file we tried would crash upon entering the Standard Renderer camera.  We also looked into the Hybrid Power settings which apparently cannot be disabled on this machine among other things.  I can't get Alienware with Windows 10 from Dell.  I believe Precision is the only series still offering Windows 10. This IT guy runs Chief flawlessly on a Precision laptop with similar specs.  When it comes down to it, I believe it remains a Windows 11 issue and would prefer a new machine optimized for Windows 10 in lieu of downgrading this machine.  I do appreciate your input,  Kevin

[kwhitt]

2 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Like Mark I would not go with the Dell Precision either, with Mark's help I went through 7 laptops before getting one that worked ( almost ) as it should,

all of them had weird issues , like with MSI, (2) with USB ports not working , (1) one overheating doing nothing at Idle, An Acer that came with a charge that wasn't Acer's ( Amazon ) , a ProStar Clevo , that had Hardware WHEA errors continuously etc etc , ya just have to have faith and buy from a place with a no questions asked Return Policy  Gigabyte has some nice models as does Asus currently and with your budget it should be top of the Line, but Xotic, HID Evolution and a few others Mark has used do the Sager/Clevos and I believe Rene Rabbit got a Eluktronics Laptop recently , so perhaps send him a PM.

 

M.

@MarkMc

 

Thanks Mick.  What exactly are you and Mark recommending?  That I keep the existing machine and downgrade to Windows 10?  I'm not quite sure that the Hybrid Power is not the cause and I don't think it can be disabled.  All I know is that this machine does not affectively run Chief.  I am open to suggestions.  Kevin

[Kbird1]

5 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

Thanks Mark.  It is my understanding that the A5000 is a newer generation RTX.  The Precision machine I'm looking into has the A5000 or A4000 as an option.  I had an IT pro look at the system today and Chief definitely does not run properly on this laptop using Windows11.  Every file we tried would crash upon entering the Standard Renderer camera.  We also looked into the Hybrid Power settings which apparently cannot be disabled on this machine among other things.  I can't get Alienware with Windows 10 from Dell.  I believe Precision is the only series still offering Windows 10. This IT guy runs Chief flawlessly on a Precision laptop with similar specs.  When it comes down to it, I believe it remains a Windows 11 issue and would prefer a new machine optimized for Windows 10 in lieu of downgrading this machine.  I do appreciate your input,  Kevin

 

Well while you still have it , why not try a Install of Win10 and find out , just return it to factory reset before returning it , which you'd do anyway...... that's one way to find out if it is Win11 or the "Hybrid" Tech, which I think is where even the RTX out goes thru the Intel chip to save power ...now I could see that messing with Chief as Chief has had weird issues over the  years with Intel's Drivers/Cards.

 

M.

[MarkMc]

6 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

What exactly are you and Mark recommending?

a gaming machine that runs on windows 10. I am NOT recommending an Aware or any Dell. Dollars to donuuts I'd bet my 2070 would hold up against the Precision. Almost every view i Chief is 3D, the developers work on RTX cards and it's been said often by Dermot and others that Chief does not get anything from the extra expense of Quadro cards which always cost more than a gaming card for which Chief is optimized. Go look at the list of software that support Quadros.

I'd go to HIDEvolution, check a few machines, call someone, call tech support. You can get a comparable machine, with upgraded thermal protection, burnt in and tested, built to order AND save between $500 and 1000. I'd even go so far as to say get an 11th gen CPU.FWIW this is my 3rd Clevo running CHief and the old one now dontated to my nephew, a 6700k with a GTX 980M 8GB ran X13 during testing without issue, just no RTRT

[Kbird1]

Just found this posted in the Chatroom, and he is have issues with his Aware as well

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/33965-hardware-preferences-for-chief-architect-premier/

 

I'd be thinking 12th gen since the budget is apparently non - existent  

 

and 11 gen is fine , might get a good deal with 12th gen out now, and at least on Desktop,  11th gen will allow Gen4 PCie on NVMEs,

which are twice as fast , BUT not sure it help Chief a lot ? but I have not investigated that on Laptops though. ( my laptop is 10th gen.)

 

M.