TomBiggs Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 I'm just trying to clarify how to interpret the timetracker data. I normally have the layout file and plan file open. I'm trying to figure the total time spent by looking at the time tracker logs for each file. In settings I have it set to stop the logging if idle for 5 minutes (I could make it less I suppose). Here's my question: If I switch windows to the plan file does it become idle if I don't go back to that window? Also, are there any best practice recommendations for using this tool that would make it more useful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renerabbitt Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 31 minutes ago, TomBiggs said: I'm trying to figure the total time spent by looking at the time tracker logs for each file I would ignore the layout time tracker as time is often redundant, unless you export to CSV and write a comparator for both for overlapping times. Timeout is based on idle, meaning triggerable actions in plan. Doesnt matter that you change to a layout window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBiggs Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 13 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said: I would ignore the layout time tracker as time is often redundant, unless you export to CSV and write a comparator for both for overlapping times. Timeout is based on idle, meaning triggerable actions in plan. Doesnt matter that you change to a layout window A comparator function would be a great thing to have baked in to the CA tool. I would need to do some research to figure out how to make one in Excel. I did manually compare in Excel and see enough time in the layout file, to warrant capturing it. Probably as you could figure it as a percentage of the time in the plan file. I'd think for projects of similar scope, it would be nearly the same. Thanks for replying, fellow Oaklander! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renerabbitt Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 14 minutes ago, TomBiggs said: Thanks for replying, fellow Oaklander! Oh I didn't notice! very cool. Always like to help out of my town. Feel free to give me a call anytime and can work you through anything in Chief, contact in website. Would say if one of your technicians is spending a ton of time in layout that is usually an indicator that they could use some workflow improvements. I spend very little time in layout as I use the SAM method and automation and annotation is best suited in plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 3 hours ago, TomBiggs said: Also, are there any best practice recommendations for using this tool that would make it more useful? If you open the Client's Layout File, it opens the Plan File in the background, so if you link a Plan to a Layout when you Start a New Project immediately and Open the Layout for Each Client each time you work, rather than the Plan File you can basically ignore the Plan hours as the Layout will capture those as well. I do this even if I don't think the Job will ever goto to Layout as I find the Timer Tracker is easier to use this way, or if need be I take the Plan Total Hrs and transfer them to the Layout Timer when I make/open a Layout for the 1st Time and Open the Project from the Client's Layout from that point on. Mick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvoyeDesign Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 17 hours ago, Renerabbitt said: I would ignore the layout time tracker as time is often redundant, unless you export to CSV and write a comparator for both for overlapping times. Timeout is based on idle, meaning triggerable actions in plan. Doesnt matter that you change to a layout window Interestingly, I would often use the layout time tracker as the only tracker. I would create a layout file immediately when starting the design, and as I work would populated it with cross sections. I often times would end up saving a backup of a design so that I could branch off on another idea that would massively alter the buliding, but later abandon it and return to the first one. How do I easily account for this when some time entrys are redundant and some are not? Use the layout time tracker only. Now I am using BQE core for time tracking as it automatically creates time entries that go straight to invoicing. BQE is quite a bloated and cumbersome package so I don't recommend it for small firms especially with no payroll, but there are others out there that are just as good if not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBiggs Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 17 hours ago, Kbird1 said: you can basically ignore the Plan hours as the Layout will capture those as well Hey All, thanks for your feedback. I think I'm getting it. Mostly I think I can ignore the plan hours, unless I open the plan file outside of the layout. I think timekeeping happens when the window is open. So if you have two windows one for plan and one for layout, then there should be duplicate time, and that's what I observed by comparing timelogs for each. I see from comparing time entries for layout and plan files that the layout file does seem to capture much of the plan file. However I do see time entries in the layout not in the plan file, and also time entries in the plan file that are not in the layout. My assumption on this is that you have to actually have a window open for each. Here's the spreadsheet that shows the non overlapping times. For the way I work, I do a lot of renovations, so the new plan file naturally includes the existing time, and it gets started as a template. Then the layout starts as a template too, and I start with updating all the text and project info on the cover sheet first, before linking in the plan files. That would explain why the layout starts with time entries not included in the plan file since it hasn't been linked in. I guess my takeaway, is to just go with Layout's hours and don't do work outside of the layout just to keep all the time captured in one place. 2156 - layout versus plan.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Get in the habit of ALWAYS starting by Opening the Layout File IF you use the Time Tracker....... ie Open the Layout with a double Click From the Client's Folder or the CA Recent List each time or you will find you have screwed yourself out of time ( and Money )... or feel like you need to spend time on a "Compare" to make sure you haven't undercut yourself. The Layout that way will (or should) always have the Plan Hours as well as it's open in the background , even if not showing in the Project Browser. If you Have a Plan File for a Project and thus Hours in the Tracker already, then Open the Plan's Tracker, note the Time, then start a Layout for the Project, making sure it is Named and saved then Close it. Then immediately reopen it , this will give you the 1st entry in the Layout's Tracker List which you can edit and put a Note of the Time Transfer from the Plan. As you can see here I Spent almost 23hours in the Plan in Jan. before getting the Go for the ConDocs. ***1 caveat is that the Time Tracker does not Enable UNTIL you save the File with a Name, but you should never be working in an Untitled Plan or Layout anyway , as this would mean the Autosave function is not enabled either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Hi Tom , I thought you might find this useful so I posted a Tip on How to Convert CA Time Tracker Durations to the Tips Forum..... Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBiggs Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 This is very useful. Thank you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgardner Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 On 3/4/2022 at 10:52 PM, Kbird1 said: Autosave function is not enabled either. Totally agree to not work in an unsaved plan. However didn't it change in x13 that there was an automatic autosave happening when one forgets to save the plan right away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesVolz Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Good method Mick! Thanks! As always. Best, Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 17 minutes ago, rgardner said: However didn't it change in x13 that there was an automatic autosave happening when one forgets to save the plan right away? Shussssh , you'll give someone a false sense of security .... not everyone has X13 but I believe you are correct that was a new "Feature" this year - have you tested it? M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, CharlesVolz said: Good method Mick! Thanks! As always. Best, Charles Thanks Charles ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 24 minutes ago, Kbird1 said: - have you tested it? Yes but wish there was a way to turn it off. It requires a lot of storage space or maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 45 minutes ago, Chopsaw said: Yes but wish there was a way to turn it off. It requires a lot of storage space or maintenance. It can definitely eat up a SSD/HDD if you Open a lot of Plans like I do from Here and Clients.......... so I just go in to the Archive Folder and delete every folder I know is not from My Current Projects about once a month or so. About the best you can do is turn off Auto Save and only use the previous Save as an Auto Archive I think, and make the Warning 25-30 files? but I am not sure I would advise it, unless REALLY low on HDD space , say a small SSD in a laptop. ( probably worth getting a larger SSD IMHO instead ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 23 minutes ago, Kbird1 said: It can definitely eat up a SSD/HDD if you Open a lot of Plans like I do from Here and Clients.......... so I just go in to the Archive Folder and delete every folder I know is not from My Current Projects about once a month or so. Yup just another wrinkle that make it harder to help out here on the forum that could be fixed with one little checkbox for.. ⬜ "Auto Save Untitled Files" Not that difficult I am sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, Chopsaw said: Yup just another wrinkle that make it harder to help out here on the forum that could be fixed with one little checkbox for.. ⬜ "Auto Save Untitled Files" Not that difficult I am sure. Not a bad idea at all .......but that one wouldn't help Forum Files as they all have Titles, but I could see an optional popup for New Files to the local Chief installation ( using the Recent List Data perhaps ) to " Auto Save On or Off for this Plan" or perhaps make it an optional per Plan Default? ( On by Default ) M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgardner Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Kbird1 said: Shussssh , you'll give someone a false sense of security .... not everyone has X13 but I believe you are correct that was a new "Feature" this year - have you tested it? M. Nope I learned that lesson years ago. First step save the file. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 37 minutes ago, Kbird1 said: 58 minutes ago, Chopsaw said: Yup just another wrinkle that make it harder to help out here on the forum that could be fixed with one little checkbox for.. ⬜ "Auto Save Untitled Files" Not that difficult I am sure. Not a bad idea at all .......but that one wouldn't help Forum Files as they all have Titles, but I could see an optional popup for New Files to the local Chief installation ( using the Recent List Data perhaps ) to " Auto Save On or Off for this Plan" or perhaps make it an optional per Plan Default? ( On by Default ) I like the idea of the Plan Default but not sure it would help out for Forum Plan Files as the Plan Default would carry through. It needs to be a Preference I think. Also I create hundreds of temporary plan files for my own use as well as for people that post forum questions without posting the offending plan file. Too many pop ups can get to the point that regardless of what they say they get ignored unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 14 minutes ago, rgardner said: Nope I learned that lesson years ago. First step save the file. I didn't mean you , like most of us you probably learnt the Hard Way long ago and it's a tough lesson to learn.... Personally I am( was) having Issues with saving and Auto save in particular lately locking up Chief and after Today's Window's Update I am having other weird Issues so are using Ctrl-S a lot M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 13 minutes ago, Chopsaw said: I like the idea of the Plan Default but not sure it would help out for Forum Plan Files as the Plan Default would carry through. It needs to be a Preference I think. Also I create hundreds of temporary plan files for my own use as well as for people that post forum questions without posting the offending plan file. Too many pop ups can get to the point that regardless of what they say they get ignored unfortunately. Yes but you'd be able to open the Plan and turn the Default Off and Chief SHOULD (?) clean up the Archive folder after itself if needed. If it was a Preference NO Plan would create an Archive Folder or do Auto Saves etc , which is not a good thing in my eyes at least. We are getting way Off Topic, perhaps start a Suggestions thread and we can move the Idea over there ? M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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