Dimensioning

[SKB-ChiefUser]

Brand New user trying out the software.

 

Trying to figure out where to change dimensioning as the defaults do not match our office standards.

 

Ex. 

• Interior walls con't get dimensioned to the Center line of the wall
• Interior walls do not get dimensioned from the face of the exterior wall
• etc..

I know most of this can be solved by changing the defaults, just have no clue where to find them.

 

[SKB-ChiefUser]

I've already searched the database, help, and checked some of the videos.  I haven't come across a solution yet.   TIA

[SKB-ChiefUser]

Thanks for the Help.

 

I guess I could have been more specific.

 

I've been using (various) CAD programs since 1977, so while I'm a newbie at Chief Architect, I am a seasoned CAD drafting professional and am well versed at working my way through software.

 

-to Reiterate.

 

We are using Automatic Dimensions.

 

I have searched Help.  I have watched the Chief Architect Quick Start Videos.  I have gone through (what I consider to be) all of the preference dialog boxes and cannot find anything that allows the changing of the below items.  I have found other dimensioning standards available to change, and I have been able to alter them to match what we need to provide the field crews.

 

I am trying to figure out where to change dimensioning as the defaults do not match our office standards.  Our office standards are set up to match how a Production Framer lays out wall framing.

 

Ex. 

• Whole number dimensions seem to drop off the Zero in inches.
• Interior walls do not currently get dimensioned to the Center line of the wall; the default seems to be to measure to each face of the wall and this is an unacceptable change to how carpenters layout framing.  The dimensioning also changes from one wall to another.
• Interior walls do not consistently get dimensioned from the exterior face of the exterior wall, or from the exterior face of the framing; the default seems to be to measure from the inside face of the exterior wall and this is an unacceptable change also.

Perhaps my issue is trying to get Automatic Dimensioning to do these things?

 

Obviously as I move through the preferences more of these items will become apparent as to how to modify the program to meet our needs, but if these items are not changeable, we'll need to move on to other software...

[GeneDavis]

All the framers I know want interior walls dimensioned to an edge, not to the center.  Look at the example plans you see at the Chief site, all of which are showing interior wall locations this way.

 

No matter how long one has worked with CAD packages, one will still need to educate oneself on how Chief works and how to set it up for your preferences.

 

You can dimension to wall lines, wall centers, to inside finish surface, you can dimension in mm, inches, feet decimal, feet and inches, you can show the zeros, drop the zeros, you can do almost anything you want.  But you will have to learn how, and the help files right in the program will be your greatest aid.

[SKB-ChiefUser]

6 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

All the framers I know want interior walls dimensioned to an edge, not to the center.  Look at the example plans you see at the Chief site, all of which are showing interior wall locations this way.

 

No matter how long one has worked with CAD packages, one will still need to educate oneself on how Chief works and how to set it up for your preferences.

 

You can dimension to wall lines, wall centers, to inside finish surface, you can dimension in mm, inches, feet decimal, feet and inches, you can show the zeros, drop the zeros, you can do almost anything you want.  But you will have to learn how, and the help files right in the program will be your greatest aid.

Thanks,

 

This may be true in different parts of the country and if the dimensioning went to the Framing, and not the face of any sheathing.   Here in Minnesota, the Carpenters prefer interior wall centers.

[SKB-ChiefUser]

4 minutes ago, solver said:

 

Have you looked at the Auto Dimension defaults?

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks again.

 

I do not find a separate spot for those yet.  Only the 1/4" etc standards...    I'll keep looking

[javatom]

Dimensions set to wall centers are a great way to NEVER get a referral from that builder again.

[SKB-ChiefUser]

Thanks for that,

I actually run the Drafting department for a large regional builder (over $25m in sales last year alone).  Interior wall centers is the standard around here.

 

I did find a couple more spots to adjust how the Auto dimensioning works and want to thank everyone for the comments.

[Alaskan_Son]

50 minutes ago, SKB-ChiefUser said:

Here in Minnesota, the Carpenters prefer interior wall centers.

 

Curious.  Have you actually conducted any kind of real world poll on this?  I've heard a similar sentiment a few different times but I don't recall having ever heard it from a tradesperson...only from architects, designers, and heads of drafting departments.  I would be genuinely surprised if you were to ask a few of your local framers and the majority said that they prefer center lines.  I can think of no logical reason why they would want that.  It just adds an error prone extra step for every contractor except maybe the foundation crew (which would typically have an error prone extra step either way). 

[SNestor]

@SKB-ChiefUser

 

 

See attached...

wall centers...automatic:

 

Dimension display...

[Alaskan_Son]

2 minutes ago, SNestor said:

Dimension display...

 

Are you sure about that Steve?  I can't get to my Automatic Exterior Dimension default by double clicking.  Always had to go into Default Settings .

[SKB-ChiefUser]

42 minutes ago, SNestor said:

@SKB-ChiefUser

 

 

See attached...

wall centers...automatic:

 

Dimension display...

Yes,  That's one place I came across...  Thanks for the confirmation.

[GeneDavis]

Imagine all that time lost and potential for error, making a mark, then a second mark at 1-3/4 or 2-3/4 offset.

[SKB-ChiefUser]

48 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Curious.  Have you actually conducted any kind of real world poll on this?  I've heard a similar sentiment a few different times but I don't recall having ever heard it from a tradesperson...only from architects, designers, and heads of drafting departments.  I would be genuinely surprised if you were to ask a few of your local framers and the majority said that they prefer center lines.  I can think of no logical reason why they would want that.  It just adds an error prone extra step for every contractor except maybe the foundation crew (which would typically have an error prone extra step either way). 

Hey,

I'm not here to change the world for anyone, just looking for what I need to make Chief Architect useful to us in our area.

 

Yes,  We've had over a dozen different framing crews do our work over the last 5 or 6 years (we've been in business since 1941, i chose not to look back farther) and all of them look for interior wall centers.  I've been doing it this way since it was taught to me my first year of High School in 1972.   (this isn't to say that if they were to work for another builder whose designer dimensions different that they would object.  Our regular guys look for Centers on interiors.)

Carpentry crews here have a 1/4" tolerance to their work, so any dimension less than 1/2" is generally ignored (no framer looks at dims of 1/8" or 1/16"; we set our dimensioning to 1/2" min.) 

Framers measure Center to Center, Face to Same Face on the next wall (basically center to center), they call out 'Butt in' or 'Hook on' as the dummy end sets up the next measurement...

Cement crews look for dimensioning from face to face all the way through the building so they can 'hook on' or 'butt in' as they mark the lines to snap.

 

Again,  I'm just making sure I can adapt Chief Architect to our needs.

 

Thanks Guys,

Steve

[SKB-ChiefUser]

Just now, GeneDavis said:

Imagine all that time lost and potential for error, making a mark, then a second mark at 1-3/4 or 2-3/4 offset.

 

 

I appreciate that, but that isn't how a framer marks walls here.  (It seems I've struck a nerve with this subject, sorry for that and know what we do works here 'no problem').

 

btw - the bigger issue is guys marking a wall line and having a grunt stand the wall on the wrong side.

[Alaskan_Son]

Just now, SKB-ChiefUser said:

I'm just making sure I can adapt Chief Architect to our needs.

 

You'll definitely be able to do this.  Chief is very customizable.  I was only asking out of curiosity and to perhaps encourage you to consider whether your practices make as much sense as you think.  If you're switching platforms and going through the process of learning a new software and setting up new templates and workflows, its about the most opportune time to reassess some of your standards.  Not saying you're right or wrong, but just because you've done it for 100 years without any push back doesn't actually mean that its the best method or that it couldn't be improved. 

[GeneDavis]

Here's Autodesk giving a tutorial on dimensioning.  https://revitpure.com/blog/14-beginner-tips-to-create-a-floor-plan-in-revit

 

I'm sure Revit'll do centers, but they're showing edges here.

[Alaskan_Son]

50 minutes ago, SKB-ChiefUser said:

I appreciate that, but that isn't how a framer marks walls here.

Framers ultimately have to layout walls the same everywhere.  In fact your own statement proves this...

 

50 minutes ago, SKB-ChiefUser said:

the bigger issue is guys marking a wall line and having a grunt stand the wall on the wrong side.

They're obviously marking wall edges meaning that at some point they had to add or subtract the thickness of the wall.  Your assertion that the numbers are simply being communicated as edge to edge markings may be true but this can only happen after the aforementioned calculations are done for at least the first wall in the string.  After that, problems can quickly and easily be multiplied, especially when wall thicknesses vary.   

 

Look at the following example.  Notice how straight forward the center line dimensions look on the right and then compare them to the resulting edge to edge dimensions on the left.  What you see on the left is what the framer has to arrive at onsite and the only way to get there is by doing some extra calculations.

 

 

54 minutes ago, SKB-ChiefUser said:

Cement crews look for dimensioning from face to face all the way through the building so they can 'hook on' or 'butt in' as they mark the lines to snap.

It seems you have again just proved that the crews ultimately need edge dimensions.  You have however also skipped over the one scenario I can think if where wall centerlines make a lot more sense....when laying out anchor bolts. 

 

Anyway, I won't try to convince you anymore.  I would encourage you to at least take a moment to honestly reassess though.  I've seen this subject result in a heated conversation a few times but don't recall an instance where any carpenters were on the side of centerline dims.  Those of us who have spent any real amount of time in the field very clearly understand the inherent problems...problems that exist no matter what region you're building in. 

 

I will say this for you though...if your carpenters have become accustomed to all those centerline dimensions then I could see the potential for error if/when you were to make the switch. 

[SKB-ChiefUser]

33 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Framers ultimately have to layout walls the same everywhere.  In fact your own statement proves this...

 

They're obviously marking wall edges meaning that at some point they had to add or subtract the thickness of the wall.  Your assertion that the numbers are simply being communicated as edge to edge markings may be true but this can only happen after the aforementioned calculations are done for at least the first wall in the string.  After that, problems can quickly and easily be multiplied, especially when wall thicknesses vary.   

 

Look at the following example.  Notice how straight forward the center line dimensions look on the right and then compare them to the resulting edge to edge dimensions on the left.  What you see on the left is what the framer has to arrive at onsite and the only way to get there is by doing some extra calculations.

 

 

It seems you have again just proved that the crews ultimately need edge dimensions.  You have however also skipped over the one scenario I can think if where wall centerlines make a lot more sense....when laying out anchor bolts. 

 

Anyway, I won't try to convince you anymore.  I would encourage you to at least take a moment to honestly reassess though.  I've seen this subject result in a heated conversation a few times but don't recall an instance where any carpenters were on the side of centerline dims.  Those of us who have spent any real amount of time in the field very clearly understand the inherent problems...problems that exist no matter what region you're building in. 

 

I will say this for you though...if your carpenters have become accustomed to all those centerline dimensions then I could see the potential for error if/when you were to make the switch. 

 

 

I have framed myself also,  and since I learned from Lead Carpenters,  I followed what they taught me.

[SNestor]

3 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Are you sure about that Steve?  I can't get to my Automatic Exterior Dimension default by double clicking.  Always had to go into Default Settings .

 

Yes...works for me. 

[Alaskan_Son]

7 minutes ago, SNestor said:

 

Yes...works for me. 

 

Hmmm.....I think you should check again.  Your picture shows that your Default Settings dialog is open and that the Select Objects tool is activated. 

[Dermot]

Here are some videos on dimensions that you may find helpful:

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/videos/playlists/92/dimensions.html

 

In particular, you may want to review the video on Automatic Exterior Dimensions.

[glennw]

5 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Are you sure about that Steve?  I can't get to my Automatic Exterior Dimension default by double clicking.  Always had to go into Default Settings .

 

I think it may depend on whether you are using Drop Down or Child Tool Palette.

It looks to me like Steve is using Child (on the left hand side of screen) and Michael is using Drop Down?

Works for Child but not Drop Down.

 

[Alaskan_Son]

10 minutes ago, glennw said:

 

I think it may depend on whether you are using Drop Down or Child Tool Palette.

It looks to me like Steve is using Child (on the left hand side of screen) and Michael is using Drop Down?

Works for Child but not Drop Down.

 

Interesting.  I haven’t used that child menu option in years.  That could explain the difference.  I’m away from my computer now...When you double click, does it actually open up Default Settings or does it open the Automatic Dimension Defaults too?  

[glennw]

With Child Tool Palettes a double click opens the Child Palette and the Default Settings dbx from which you need to select Auto Exterior Dimensions.