X-11 SHOWS A LAYER IS USED IN DEFAULTS-


Renerabbitt
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Renerabbitt said:

Can't find where in my defaults I reference a particular layer. Layer display options shows that it is used in a default.

Is there an easier way to finding this rather than digging through every option in CA? Looking to delete this layer and I can't

REALLY REALLY need a Layer management tool...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/19/2019 at 9:45 AM, Renerabbitt said:

Is there an easier way to finding this rather than digging through every option in CA? Looking to delete this layer and I can't

We don't currently have a feature in place to provide that information in the user interface. We're experimenting with that idea in the Line Style Management dialog, which provides some more detailed information if you hover over the "Used" column with your mouse. Once we gather enough feedback from users on how that system works for them, we may be able to extend other dialogs (particularly Layer Display Options) to provide the same kind of information.

 

On 2/19/2019 at 10:53 AM, HumbleChief said:

REALLY REALLY need a Layer management tool...

Aside from more detailed information about what's using a layer and the functionality that's already available in the Layer Display Options dialog, are there any other particular features you had in mind for what a layer management tool should provide?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would recommend looking at the default setting where this object is most likely used. Som of the layers in Larry's example had ANNO prepended to the name. So, I would be that there is an annotation default using that layer. Changing which layer that annotation set uses would free up the now, unused layer.

 

I agree though, it would be nice if you could trace which default is using that layer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Kirk. Where is the default setting where the object is most likely used? THAT"S the question, I don't know where to find the layer in which default? Is it in defaults? Where exactly? My default plan? Default layout?

 

The layers are named ANNO and it's just a layer name, has nothing to do with an ANNO set, just a layer name with the word ANNO. Made those layers a hundred years ago when ANNO sets first came out but they are just layer names. Substitute any other name, just a layer name. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, BrownTiger said:

You can not delete a layer if it is used not just a plan but any cad details... At one time I was trying to delete layer named "0" ... with no luck...

Yeah I think you're right, but what if I wanted to find that CAD detail and delete the usage of that layer? How would one find that 'default' location? And why would it be called a 'default' location if it's used in a CAD detail in some plan somewhere? Curious...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Larry,

I am not sure that you understood what Kirk was saying, so forgive me if I am stating the obvious.

 

If you have a layer specified by an annoset to use that layer, even though there is no data on that layer, Chief will mark that layer as Default which you can't delete.

So you need to check your annosets for any layers they may be using - you would then need to delete that layer from the annoset (or delete the annoset).

Then if there is no data on the layer, you should be able to delete the layer - as long as some other default is not using that layer as well.

 

My best guess is that a most of your layers (that you have created) marked "Default" are referenced by one or more of your annosets.

 

It could be a big job!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been struggling with the same thing trying to clean up a template plan.  It would be great to have a way to locate where layers (and anno sets) are being used.  Perhaps an interface similar to the find from schedule tool would work.  That's saved me lots of time.  Or similar to the find and replace text tool?  LOVE that tool!

 

As Glenn said, it's a huge task to find buried defaults and layers.  Maybe impossible!  I've been added a Z before no longer used anno sets or layers to sort them to the bottom and move them out of my way.  It's not worth the effort to find them.

 

A merge layer function would be great too.  I use a lot of legacy plans and cleaning up old layers can be a bear.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

17 hours ago, glennw said:

Larry,

I am not sure that you understood what Kirk was saying, so forgive me if I am stating the obvious.

 

If you have a layer specified by an annoset to use that layer, even though there is no data on that layer, Chief will mark that layer as Default which you can't delete.

So you need to check your annosets for any layers they may be using - you would then need to delete that layer from the annoset (or delete the annoset).

Then if there is no data on the layer, you should be able to delete the layer - as long as some other default is not using that layer as well.

 

My best guess is that a most of your layers (that you have created) marked "Default" are referenced by one or more of your annosets.

 

It could be a big job!

Thanks Glenn. Kirk specifically referred to the names I had used with the word ANNO "prepended" to the name and that might be related to the ANNO set because of the word ANNO. Clearly ANNO is just a name I chose (bad decision many years ago but works for me) with no special relation to an ANNO set because of the name. Explained in video above.

 

That doesn't negate your point in the least and you are probably correct about the relation of the defaults and ANNO sets but the job still remains 'big' with no where to specifically look to find those layers. Where to start? Been down this road a few times in the last many years and simply give up because there's no way my little brain can figure it out. Learned to live with the many layers, old and new, and always wanted a way to manage them.

 

May not be reasonable considering how  Chief creates and currently manages layers but once Ben or Kirk chimes it's hard not to try and keep their attention.

 

EDIT: Glenn I think your last point is the most relevant,"It could be a big job!" My point and question is, how to make it a smaller job that even us boneheads can figure out....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, BenMerritt said:

We don't currently have a feature in place to provide that information in the user interface. We're experimenting with that idea in the Line Style Management dialog, which provides some more detailed information if you hover over the "Used" column with your mouse. Once we gather enough feedback from users on how that system works for them, we may be able to extend other dialogs (particularly Layer Display Options) to provide the same kind of information.

 

Aside from more detailed information about what's using a layer and the functionality that's already available in the Layer Display Options dialog, are there any other particular features you had in mind for what a layer management tool should provide?

 

Ben, in addition to the ability drill down into all of a layers current uses, it would also be very helpful to be able to:

 

1.  Have a separate column in front of the Layer Name column that we could add an alpha numeric code to so we could better organize layers.

 

2.  It would also be helpful to be able to have another column that would indicate which layers are system layers and which are user created.

 

3.  I would also like to be able to reset system layers to their default names on an individual layer basis, or at least have a tool tip that would display that info.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/20/2019 at 12:50 PM, HumbleChief said:

Is it in defaults? Where exactly? My default plan? Default layout?

 

It should be in the defaults for the document you opened the Layer Display Options from. So if you're in a layout view when you open the document, it'll be in that specific layout's defaults, and if you were in a plan, it'll be somewhere in that plan's defaults. Of course, that's still only about as useful as saying that a ship is "somewhere in the Pacific Ocean"; it'll still take a while to find it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, BenMerritt said:

 

It should be in the defaults for the document you opened the Layer Display Options from. So if you're in a layout view when you open the document, it'll be in that specific layout's defaults, and if you were in a plan, it'll be somewhere in that plan's defaults. Of course, that's still only about as useful as saying that a ship is "somewhere in the Pacific Ocean"; it'll still take a while to find it.

Explained all that in the video above or am just really bad at communicating. The video above (I think most people don't actually watch them and that's cool) I explain my search through the plan that uses that layer as its default and can find nothing, no reference to it other than it's used.  If I can't find it, it means that I am not so smart, which have confirmed many times, or there is no actual technique for finding those defaults and it is indeed as difficult as finding a ship "somewhere in the Pacific ocean."

 

Is there a technique I missed? Is there a method we should know about? Is there a method at all? Would you please create a method when you get a minute....:P:P Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, RodCole said:

 

Ben, in addition to the ability drill down into all of a layers current uses, it would also be very helpful to be able to:

 

1.  Have a separate column in front of the Layer Name column that we could add an alpha numeric code to so we could better organize layers.

 

2.  It would also be helpful to be able to have another column that would indicate which layers are system layers and which are user created.

 

3.  I would also like to be able to reset system layers to their default names on an individual layer basis, or at least have a tool tip that would display that info.

As far as #2 goes, if you hover over the "Used" column with your mouse cursor, there's a tooltip notification that will show up for system layers. It's kind of an awkward compromise between providing full information and cluttering the table with a lot of columns, but it might do the job for now. System layers that aren't used anywhere else in the plan or defaults also have their own icon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, RodCole said:

 

Ben, in addition to the ability drill down into all of a layers current uses, it would also be very helpful to be able to:

 

1.  Have a separate column in front of the Layer Name column that we could add an alpha numeric code to so we could better organize layers.

 

Apologies if this doesn't help....

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Is there a technique I missed? Is there a method we should know about? Is there a method at all? Would you please create a method when get a minute....:P:P

Unfortunately, there isn't anything you're missing; we don't provide good information about the exact locations where layers are used, and sometimes they get tucked into such obscure corners of the defaults that even the developers struggle to find them. I can't make any promises about whether we'll add that feature since I don't make those decisions myself, but I'd also like to see it get added eventually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, BenMerritt said:

Unfortunately, there isn't anything you're missing; we don't provide good information about the exact locations where layers are used, and sometimes they get tucked into such obscure corners of the defaults that even the developers struggle to find them. I can't make any promises about whether we'll add that feature since I don't make those decisions myself, but I'd also like to see it get added eventually.

Thanks Ben, know you guys are busy and appreciate the time taken to respond.

 

I have a feeling layers and their use and locations are hard coded in a way that might make any request to manage them a very hard row to hoe but it doesn't hurt to entertain the idea.

 

Is there currently a way to list layers using prefixes (space, character, . letter) that can be unique to a single layer set as the video above asks?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ben,

I would like to see a hierarchical "folder" structure for the layers.

Much the same as the traditional file folder setup.

ie, we could have a layer folder called Dimensions.

This dimensions layer folder would then have dimension layer subfolders called Dimensions, Automatic, Dimensions Manual, Dimensions Electrical, etc.

This would allow for grouping of various layer groups and finer editing control.

ie, we could turn off all the dimension layers by only selecting the head Dimension layer folder.

Or we could change all the dimension layer properties in one go instead of having to group select all the dimension layers as we do now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, glennw said:

Ben,

I would like to see a hierarchical "folder" structure for the layers.

Much the same as the traditional file folder setup.

ie, we could have a layer folder called Dimensions.

This dimensions layer folder would then have dimension layer subfolders called Dimensions, Automatic, Dimensions Manual, Dimensions Electrical, etc.

This would allow for grouping of various layer groups and finer editing control.

ie, we could turn off all the dimension layers by only selecting the head Dimension layer folder.

Or we could change all the dimension layer properties in one go instead of having to group select all the dimension layers as we do now.

+1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Larry

Thanks for your reply.  I was aware of the space and other characters trick, but no harm in showing that since a lot of folks on here may not be.

 

The reason that I use codes in front of the layer names is so that not only can the layers be ordered and grouped in the list according to industry standards, not just alphabetically is because it lets you also use a portion of the code to filter out everything but the particular layers you want.  Say you wanted Structural Roof Framing, and also the Architectural Roof layers as well.

 

When using the layer filter box, all you have to do is type in the particular matching characters and you instantly have a subset of just the layers you want in the dbx.  This is why having numeric capabilities is important, otherwise you would get a mess of everything that has those letters in it without any particular organization.

 

For whatever it is worth, I would not go the route of doing anything more that matching the code representing a particular group of layers to the corresponding Annotation Set.  Just my 2 cents.

 

Ben

 

The tool tip is very helpful for some things, but from my experience it does not distinguish between system layers and those layers that the user created. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Is there currently a way to list layers using prefixes (space, character, . letter) that can be unique to a single layer set as the video above asks?

 

Larry,

This could get complicated.

How would you cover the situation where a layer is used in more than 1 layerset?

 

Oh, on your comment regarding Modify All Layer Sets.

When this is checked, Chief will apply any changes to a layers properties to all layer sets.

If it is unchecked (default), Chief only applies any changes to a layers properties to the current layer set - which is what is needed in most cases.

This allows us to display objects with different appearances in different layersets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, RodCole said:

Larry

Thanks for your reply.  I was aware of the space and other characters trick, but no harm in showing that since a lot of folks on here may not be.

 

The reason that I use codes in front of the layer names is so that not only can the layers be ordered and grouped in the list according to industry standards, not just alphabetically is because it lets you also use a portion of the code to filter out everything but the particular layers you want.  Say you wanted Structural Roof Framing, and also the Architectural Roof layers as well.

 

When using the layer filter box, all you have to do is type in the particular matching characters and you instantly have a subset of just the layers you want in the dbx.  This is why having numeric capabilities is important, otherwise you would get a mess of everything that has those letters in it without any particular organization.

 

For whatever it is worth, I would not go the route of doing anything more that matching the code representing a particular group of layers to the corresponding Annotation Set.  Just my 2 cents.

 

Ben

 

The tool tip is very helpful for some things, but from my experience it does not distinguish between system layers and those layers that the user created. 

Yeah Rod, some kind of robust yet flexible Layer Set and Layer management tool would be nice. The one thing that seems to happen at Chief is that some things take a long time to implement but when they are Chief hits it out of the park. Maybe Layer Management will have a happy ending like Anno Sets and the new ref set feature...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, glennw said:

 

Larry,

This could get complicated.

How would you cover the situation where a layer is used in more than 1 layerset?

 

Oh, on your comment regarding Modify All Layer Sets.

When this is checked, Chief will apply any changes to a layers properties to all layer sets.

If it is unchecked (default), Chief only applies any changes to a layers properties to the current layer set - which is what is needed in most cases.

This allows us to display objects with different appearances in different layersets.

A single layer could be used in more than one layer set just ordered differently in each set. Same name different order in the list.

 

Yeah it's a band aid at best and a bad idea at worst...Couldn't remember the modify all layer sets check box. Thanks for the reminder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

  • Member Statistics

    32353
    Total Members
    9156
    Most Online
    RRSSeattle
    Newest Member
    RRSSeattle
    Joined