Layout - Selective update / retain edits of section views


Sydney23
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When the design work is done and the time comes to output to layout, I normally have to spend 5-20 minutes tidying up each elevation/section in layout - getting rid of spurious lines mainly (largely due to CA wanting to create a complex buildable structure rather than what I normally need which is mainly just a simplified structure outline with main features - windows, doors, etc). The problem is, if the client then wants a change, or I spot something that needs changing in the plan, I have to decide - am I going to try and edit the changes within layout or spend an awful lot of time updating the layout elevation from the revised plan and start all over agan with the layout edits?

 

Is there any way of preserving layout edits? Or selectively updating elevations/sectios from plan to layout?

 

This might be a technical/logical impossibility, I haven't spent time trying to work it out. I am still X6, I guess I'm partly asking if this has been added since?

 

Many thanks.

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I am not sure what you mean when you say "added". Chief of whatever version is a mechanical device that one controls and guides to needed and wanted results. Plan files and Layout files work in concert to achieve graphic results or communications you might say. The process is straightforward, the only complication is the 3D element of the plan file. The additional difficulty of 3D is offset by its utility. I just do what needs doing. Clients change their minds. Architectural Design is a creative process and not in any way fixed or set in stone.

 

DJP

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Hi David, I remember you answering questions very usefully when I was an HDP newbie a fair few years ago! It is highly appreciated.

 

I have read other people over the years saying that they have to spend a lot of time cleaning up elevations once output to Layout - there are often strange lines indicating where walls of different definitions intersect in external elevation views, cross sections can show far to much confusing detail (e.g. wall layers) which either cannot be switched off or which have to be part there/part not there in order to illustrate things clearly. It means adding or deleting lines with the "Edit Layout Lines" tool or even adding white boxes in Layout to hide things because there seems no way of having any other layout box shape other than rectangular (or has a newer version enabled layout boxes to have edit points added so we can step in/out the view window in Layout? I believe a post X6 version has enabled stepped elevation views?).

 

I have long wanted to come to the USA for some more detailed training to try and get CA set up to work more efficiently for how I need it and sort out some perennial issues I can't seem to conquer (multiple floor / room heights / basements can still drive me absolutely nuts after YEARS of using CA! Recessing doors and windows to exactly where I want them relative to interior or exterior wall surface is another). The way CA works is often way too complex for what I need and I'm 100% sure I'm not using it in an optimum way - far from it. But I've simply never had the time and money - though of course it would later save me time and money if I were to do this! One day, one day.

 

Until then, I get by - CA is (relatively) cheap and I can get out of it most of what I need without too much drama these days. It is already amazing - just wondering if it could be even  more amazing...

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12 minutes ago, Sydney23 said:

I believe a post X6 version has enabled stepped elevation views?).

 

Yes X10 has stepped and or angled, or even curved layout box editing abilities. No more cad masks for that !

 

As for the edited layout lines, I think it is still the same as X6, maybe a few less lines or I have gotten better at my connections.  There is a manual update now but I thought it always was that way.  Or you can use the new live elevation views.

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4 hours ago, Sydney23 said:

Chopsaw - thank you - veeeery interesting.... I think I need to budget for an upgrade at some point...

 

Unfortunately is is no cheaper to wait and upgrade every 3-4 years , it still costs $500yr or more, so you might as well pay SSA ($495) and have all the latest features like PBR and new Libraries all the time.

 

What is worse is if you wait another year ( or 2?) you'll have to pay for a Full version again ie if you had X5 now you'd have to pay in full again , so my guess would be, you would need to upgrade to X10 ( comes with SSA so you get X11)  before X11 comes out ( 6-8 months if schedule stays the same)

 

*** Full disclosure .....I DO NOT work for Chief Sales :)

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What? Have to pay for a completely new copy?! I don't get it, so my X5 will be worth NOTHING?

 

I guess I might be allowed to ebay it with CA's permission, but it seems harsh. I know they have to pay for development but this seems over-zealous. I have been looking at swapping to Sketch-up for some time - far, far cheaper and better in some ways (worse in others!). This might push me unless I get a load of work in and can justify the hit for an updated CA...

 

I really appreciate the heads up, must check that 'X5 is worth nothing' issue out when I have 5 mins.

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I still have fully functioning versions of Chief Premier starting with Version 7 through Version 20 (X10). "Value" is determined by you and no one else. My Version 7 works just as good as it did back in 1999. I rarely use it but it still functions like it did then. I have clients like you who never bothered to upgrade (that is my "why" for all the antique versions). Just because you have version X5 or X6 just means you have at your fingertips the capabilities of those older versions. Each newer version is better than last years and that is how it should be. "Worth Nothing" is merely a personal consideration and not any kind of "reality" unless you make it so for you.

 

Quality creative work requires a certain dedication and personal standards which, for me is just part of my job producing the consistent level of professional work I demand of myself and for my clients. I do not blame my tools for the actuality of my produce, only I am responsible for that and no one or anything else, just me. One's worth and the apparent worth of one's possessions are all personal considerations and nothing more.

 

DJP 

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On 9/3/2018 at 4:13 AM, Sydney23 said:

What? Have to pay for a completely new copy?! I don't get it, so my X5 will be worth NOTHING?

 

I guess I might be allowed to ebay it with CA's permission, but it seems harsh. I know they have to pay for development but this seems over-zealous. I have been looking at swapping to Sketch-up for some time - far, far cheaper and better in some ways (worse in others!). This might push me unless I get a load of work in and can justify the hit for an updated CA...

 

I really appreciate the heads up, must check that 'X5 is worth nothing' issue out when I have 5 mins.

 

If you have X5 it is worth nothing already , if according to your Signature you upgraded to X6 , you can't sell X5 and keep X6 as X6 is an Upgrade Copy and has the applicable upgrade discount applied.  If I were you I would Contact CA Sales Direct and see what they can do for you, they will also supply the Transfer Forms if you really intend to sell CA , and tell you what they will charge to do the Transfer of the license.

 

M.

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Mick, sorry, I wasn't paying attention - I should have said X6. I just checked and I could get completely up to date for USD1600, which is a lot if I don't do many projects a year (as currently) but very cheap if I'm designing full time. I think that is a flaw in CA's pricing structure but that's way, way off topic for this thread!

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To the question of the task of cleaning up cross sections each time the plan is revised, I look at it this way:

 

When I first started I was using an off the shelf version of Turbocad, which is a very basic cad design program.  It had 3D tools, but for drawing plans they were not useful, so I simply drew all my plans and elevations in 2D lines.  I had libraries of window and door blocks that I would paste over the wall lines which would automatically patch.  I had to project lines from a floor plan to create elevation drawings.  It was very tedious and dull, but I made it work until I could scratch enough pennies to buy Chief.

 

When I bought Chief, it was like a dream come true.  However I did find it frustrating the amount of cleanup I had to do with elevations and cross sections from time to time.  I really wanted a slick, fast program that didn't require those edits.  I've eventually come to accept that Chief isn't perfect, but that it is much better than manulally drawing out all my plans and elevations from projected lines.  I may have to spend a bit of time cleaning things up for every revision, but I've learned how to deal with that.

 

I make sure the client has all the changes into a revision that they want before I change the elevations.  My fees are structured to take into account the amount of time to revise the plan.  I also use masks and CAD lines where necessary, inside the camera view, to save from repeated work cleaning up elevations and sections.  But most of all, while I recognize that Cheif is a powerful tool, I also recognize that the work I do is custom, fairly comprehensive, and time consuming.  I don't expect Chief to do all the work for me all the time, or for its tools to be perfect for every situation.  A live cross section isn't always an ideal construction drawing, and must be adapted at times to be less busy or cluttered.

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10 hours ago, Sydney23 said:

which is a lot if I don't do many projects a year (as currently) but very cheap if I'm designing full time. I think that is a flaw in CA's pricing structure but that's way, way off topic for this thread!

 

I know what you mean , I think they allow SSA on monthly payments now instead ( once you have a full version again) but CA's rental programs are ****ish expensive even compared to my Visa Card ,( 28.5% now, was 22.5% ) so a small Biz. loan is likely a better way to go and pay it off monthly with lumpsums if you get a good Job perhaps...

 

M.

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On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 4:38 AM, Sydney23 said:

Is there any way of preserving layout edits? Or selectively updating elevations/sectios from plan to layout?

 

Edits are certainly tedious, however, if you are interested in holding on to those edits, I'm wondering (read: I haven't tried this) if it's possible to set up your edits for each elevation on separate layers/annosets so that you could call them up at any time?

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Just a small tip in regard to cad edits on elevation views.

I make it a habit to add cad to the actual elevation and delete cad in the layout elevation.

At least that way you will not lose the cad you added to the actual elevation view.

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Stephen, I checked and there is no layer control for layout line edits in Layout. I will try Glenn's idea as there is full control of CAD in Plan - it might be the answer to help avoid repeating additons and masking/blanking out boxes (though not for deletions that would still have to be done in Layout).

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Andy,

Yeah, Paddington and Manly are still there although they have probably changed a bit over time.

I don't know how old you are, but you weren't born at Crown Street were you? Long gone now though.

I am just up the coast from Manly at Avalon.

 

The added benefit of only adding cad in the elevation  itself is that if you move the layout box, all the added cad moves with it - unlike if you draw the cad on layout.

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11 hours ago, Sydney23 said:

I checked and there is no layer control for layout line edits in Layout.

That's right.  I was thinking more towards Glenn's suggested workflow and working with CAD on the actual elevation, rather than in the layout.  There, I think you could set up different lines on layers. 

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