NotAPro

Townhouse Block Construction with 9' Ceilings

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hello everyone :)

I am designing a load bearing townhouse type structure with concrete blocks on the entire perimeter.

1st level garages is 12 course blocks (8' garages) and on each level above I want to accomplish 9' ceilings.

 

My question is, how many courses would I need to equal 9' ceilings, so that the framing and drywall etc will not need any extra seams or studs etc.

I want to use 4.5' x 8' drywall horizontal so that the seams will be minimal, but with block exterior walls, for example, 13 courses is 8' 8" and 14 courses is 9' 4"

 

and obviously with 9'4" rough ceiling, the framing and drywall would be complicated.

 

Anybody have suggestions to accomplish 9' ceilings, the same as would be wood framing?

thanks!

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10 minutes ago, NotAPro said:

hello everyone :)

I am designing a load bearing townhouse type structure with concrete blocks on the entire perimeter.

1st level garages is 12 course blocks (8' garages) and on each level above I want to accomplish 9' ceilings.

 

My question is, how many courses would I need to equal 9' ceilings, so that the framing and drywall etc will not need any extra seams or studs etc.

I want to use 4.5' x 8' drywall horizontal so that the seams will be minimal, but with block exterior walls, for example, 13 courses is 8' 8" and 14 courses is 9' 4"

 

and obviously with 9'4" rough ceiling, the framing and drywall would be complicated.

 

Anybody have suggestions to accomplish 9' ceilings, the same as would be wood framing?

thanks!

They make an 8 x 4 x 16" block wouldn't that (13 1/2 courses) get you to 9 ft?

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10 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

They make an 8 x 4 x 16" block wouldn't that (13 1/2 courses) get you to 9 ft?

 

Oops,  don't forget the sill plate on the block wall.

 

How about 13 courses and a 4x P.T. sill on top?

 

Oops,  is the block sitting on a slab or footings with a slab then poured between the block walls.

 

 I say let the electrician figure it out.

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hi HumbleChief!

I guess I did not have my thinking cap on this morning!

I don't work with block much, 

 

Someone also suggest to do 14 courses and have 4" soffits throughout areas such as living rooms and bedrooms etc, but was trying to reduce the overall cost and eliminate that.

 

thanks ))))

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@Dshall

Slab foundation

 

Which would be more cost effective... to  have 13.5 courses,or 13 courses with 4x Sill plates?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, NotAPro said:

@Dshall

Slab foundation

 

Which would be more cost effective... to  have 13.5 courses,or 13 courses with 4x Sill plates?

 

 

Not sure you have the right forum to figure construction costs but perhaps someone will chime in. I do not know modern construction costs.

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You're going to pay the mason and steel crew a heck of a lot more than the carpenter and drywall crew. So much depends on the floor system you've chose to use, and the bearing conditions/requirements. 54" wide gypsum panels are designed to make things easy for standard wood-framed construction - which your project isn't. Besides, almost any gypsum panel product can be ordered in the length you need (though minimum orders are required). I would concentrate on getting the wall designed for structure and economy, then see where the floor-to-floor heights land, and then work on value-engineering everything within the building shell. 

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@rlackore,

thanks for the reply.

The flooring system will be poured concrete on each level.

 

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40 minutes ago, NotAPro said:

@rlackore,

thanks for the reply.

The flooring system will be poured concrete on each level.

 

 

Pan deck? Structural slab? Precast with topping?

 

A concrete deck reinforces my belief that you need to figure out the wall/floor system condition, and optimize for the design to favor the simplicity of the structural system, before worrying about the interior build-out.

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@rlackore,

I would be looking for the most cost effective solution for the flooring.  Here in south florida for this type of construction, there is mostly cast in place decks for multi family.

Which do you think is most cost effective?

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Can't say - I live in Wisconsin. If CIP is mostly used in your area, and that's what contractors are used to doing, then there's a good chance it will be reasonably cost effective based on contractor familiarity and experience. But, it depends so much on the project: square footage, fire-resistive assembly locations and strategy, etc. I'm just saying that on most projects, it's been my experience that it's more cost-effective to design for the structure; this is especially true if you'll be customizing the interior build-outs on a per-customer basis (like a lot of higher-end apartments, penthouses, etc.), and the marketing folks can charge accordingly.

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Take the last course of cmu block and cut them to size of the height you need to make it work with the sill plate on, a good mason laborer  with a k saw wouldn't take them long to cut

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CMU construction often requires a bond beam. Good way to adjust your ceiling heights.

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Since no-one else has, I will state the obvious here....between your username and the nature of the questions I would suggest that you take a pass on this project, or purchase a nice fat insurance policy. 

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While I agree with Joey Martin. See ACAD (Alan) plan he posted.

There is some logic to standard rough ceilings being 97 1/8" and 109 1/8" instead of 96" and 108" so I would not recommend you make your rough ceiling exactly 9' if you want to use drywall that is 54" in width thinking you are saving the dry wall contractor time when in reality you will cause the dry wall contractor a lot of unnecessary work.

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On 6/2/2017 at 11:26 AM, dshall said:

 

Oops,  don't forget the sill plate on the block wall.

 

How about 13 courses and a 4x P.T. sill on top?

 

Oops,  is the block sitting on a slab or footings with a slab then poured between the block walls.

 

 I say let the electrician figure it out.

I seldom see sill plates any more in Florida.

Truss sits on the block bond beam with s galv. plate that comes with the truss.

Simpson META16 in the bond beam to anchor the truss.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, ACADuser said:

I seldom see sill plates any more in Florida.

Truss sits on the block bond beam with s galv. plate that comes with the truss.

Simpson META16 in the bond beam to anchor the truss.

 

 

Does the mason install the fasteners for the plate or are they drilled and epoxied to get the anchors in the exact location needed?

For heights are you stuck within the limits of the block heights? I know it commercial buildings ceiling heights are sometimes not relevant as they use drop down ceilings but what do they do in condos and apartments? I am not familiar with how they build town homes,condos and apartments in Florida but I would assume that they use a lot of block to withstand hurricanes and tornados along with dry rot issues?

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Plates come installed from the truss company. They are just to prevent contact of the wood truss & the cc bond beam.

Strap connectors are installed by the CC guy as they pour the bond beam. They are installed at the layout marks put on the block wall by the framer or GC.

 

We work in 4" increments for block wall heights.

Two story block you install a ledger to support the 2nd floor so you have more flexibility on height.

Working on a 4 story now. the front & back walls are block on the 1st floor & frame above that. The party wall is 4 story block.

 

 

CA wall dection.JPG

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Thanks Alan.

I have been involved as a Construction Manager on tilt-up projects and we use ledgers for floors and roofs (top bearing trusses) and looking at your drawing it's very similar. I have never drawn anything commercial or mixed use only single and multifamily up to 4 stories in height. Looks like you have a lot of experience with commercial structures by following your posts. It would be awesome to have the knowledge you have in designing those types of buildings. I wish you would share more of that experience with us but I know time is a rare commodity now days as we are all extremely busy.

Thanks

Jeff K

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