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Stairs - what a pain

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I have a set of stairs in a two story room.  Open one side.  L-shaped.  One side of the stair is open rail all the way to the second floor landing.  (see attached plan)

 

There are a few problems....of course.  And, maybe there just isn't any possible fix...hopefully a stair guru will chime in and let me know.  

 

1.  It appears as though there are two newels at the rail intersection at the landing.  Why?  I opened the lower section and "unchecked" has newel...but this did not fix the problem.

 

2.  Why does the skirt board at the top of the stair extend beyond the 2nd floor surface? 

 

3.  I have been unable to make the stair rail on the stairs align perfectly with the landing rail on the second floor.  I adjusted the location of the newel on the landing rail...and this helped.  But, my question is...why doesn't the railing on the stairs align automatically with the landing rail?  If you move the landing rail out (the rail is actually a wall) to align with the stair rail...then this "wall" does not align with the wall below it.  Very frustrating.  

 

I've attached some pics that might help...and the plan.

 

 5911c826d4525_StairView3.thumb.png.1091251ee016f84cab93e57bb2ea4333.png  5911c81c0701b_StairView1.thumb.png.7ad58fd0bd942407472f4c7ad5ce9796.png  5911c822485e9_StairView2.thumb.png.cf31ff351efd84d651fb0e9eb3239df4.png

 

Stair Issues Plan 1.plan

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Did you try eliminating the left stair rail in the newel part of the stair dbx? Then extend the landing railing over the stair and select "follow stair" in the wall/railing dbx. This is not something intuitive but I've had Glenn explain it to me on one of his thread replies. I would like to see more requests in the "Suggestions" forum continuing to ask for real controls for creating and actually detailing the stairs. Sucks when you know how to draw them with a pencil but your software can't accomodate.-BB

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9 minutes ago, Archnot-Boltz said:

Did you try eliminating the left stair rail in the newel part of the stair dbx? Then extend the landing railing over the stair and select "follow stair" in the wall/railing dbx. This is not something intuitive but I've had Glenn explain it to me on one of his thread replies. I would like to see more requests in the "Suggestions" forum continuing to ask for real controls for creating and actually detailing the stairs. Sucks when you know how to draw them with a pencil but your software can't accomodate.-BB

 

Well...I have tried the "follow stair" method...without any success.  Attached is a pic of what happens.  I lost the hallway arched opening...there is now a "wall gap"...and the stair rail is not continuous.  

 

I realize it's user error...but, it would be nice if this part of the software just "worked".  Or...maybe Chief needs to do some videos on how to handle stair rails etc.  I notice most of their stair videos are basic stairs...and the results they achieve on their videos are not really acceptable to me.  

 

   5911cda494db1_StairView4.thumb.png.73dcbe8e1bd95e23452b693a0228ad36.png

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I don't think it's user error when Chief doesn't give you(us) the proper tools.

 

I'm sure that Glenn or one of those guys that do genius things with the program that even the programmers hadn't thought of can come up with a complex solution/work-a-round that works but  is no way intuitive or easy (or fast!). Your original stair looked great except for the inability to offset your railing independently of the "wall/railing" that controls it's location. They gave us a "newel offset" tool for deck and room railings but no offset for the railing, which is equally frustrating.

 

Sorry I can't play with your plan until I get around to upgrading from X8 when I get time. Also at your mid-landing, I don't know why your lower section hand railing terminates into the fluted section of the mid-landing's newel. 

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Dumb question, and I'm not trying to be facetious but why is this level of precision so important? 

I mean at the end of the day you are providing instructions on how to build a house. The individual sub-trade, in this case your stair carpenter knows how to build a staircase and railing. He needs the number of steps and the width and he'll figure out the rest. Your customer understands that this is simply a visual representation of the general look of the home in 3D, so unless it's for personal ocd reasons (and we all have that or we wouldn't be using a program such as Chief) then what's the point?

 

I personally draw a line at, "if the carpenter has enough info to build it" then I stop there with the details. 

 

- Michael

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I rebuilt the stairs from the bottom up. That fixed the double newel at the landing. I believe it was because your landing was a bit wider than the upper stair section.

 

The 2nd floor rail, I made the wall thinner -- 1.5" I think, then aligned with the wall below.

 

Used the Offset value to move the newel over to the center of the railing.

 

Changed a few other minor things, and there is some to clean up still.

 

Also, used a solid for the skirt board.

 

Snap5.thumb.jpg.ae634e0fb3ab1ed4b8b0800b3e7c532f.jpg

 

Stair Issues Plan 1 (eric).zip

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54 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said:

Dumb question, and I'm not trying to be facetious but why is this level of precision so important? 

I mean at the end of the day you are providing instructions on how to build a house. The individual sub-trade, in this case your stair carpenter knows how to build a staircase and railing. He needs the number of steps and the width and he'll figure out the rest. Your customer understands that this is simply a visual representation of the general look of the home in 3D, so unless it's for personal ocd reasons (and we all have that or we wouldn't be using a program such as Chief) then what's the point?

 

I personally draw a line at, "if the carpenter has enough info to build it" then I stop there with the details. 

 

- Michael

Then why bother purchasing a 3D software? Asking for a stair tool to work properly isn't asking for an unrealistic level of precision.

 

What if need to provide some custom millwork details around the stairs, or some interior elevations for the wall region?

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Ok, I guess my coment is from the perspective of a builder like myself. I don't design custom millwork. So I don't need that level of precision.  

No offense

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47 minutes ago, Michael_Gia said:

Ok, I guess my coment is from the perspective of a builder like myself. I don't design custom millwork. So I don't need that level of precision.  

No offense

As a designer, it would be nice to be able to design and properly detail a set of stairs. If I have to draw it with pencil on vellum (which is sometimes relaxing) then what good is Chief? Even at your level of required detail, a poor illustration or representation could lead to mistakes from your vendor. What about stairs for decks and the various simple ways to attach your newel posts? I can't be creative with a bad set of design tools (unless I learn and use a program like Sketchup).

 

Look at the time that Problem Solver just invested and can't get it quite correct. That should be a wake up for Chief to give us better stair (and deck tools). I just had a freelance designer that we've contracted with to pick up some design work when I'm swamped interview with my employer. She's using Softplan and her 3d rendered images were a lot more realistic than mine ( I don't have time to wait for Raytrace images). Going to see if she has more control over her stairs when she does some drawing for us. -BB 

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3 hours ago, solver said:

I rebuilt the stairs from the bottom up. That fixed the double newel at the landing. I believe it was because your landing was a bit wider than the upper stair section.

 

The 2nd floor rail, I made the wall thinner -- 1.5" I think, then aligned with the wall below.

 

Used the Offset value to move the newel over to the center of the railing.

 

Changed a few other minor things, and there is some to clean up still.

 

Also, used a solid for the skirt board.

 

Snap5.thumb.jpg.ae634e0fb3ab1ed4b8b0800b3e7c532f.jpg

 

Stair Issues Plan 1 (eric).zip

 

Eric,

Thanks so much for taking the time to work on the plan...and teaching us all a few new things.

 

- I didn't realize that I could change the width of the railing wall without that affecting all the rail components.  

- I didn't realize how precisely the landing and stairs had to intersect.  

- I also had never thought of turning off the "stringer at wall" setting and drawing my own skirt.  Of course...why should I have to do this?

 

I realize the stair tool is imperfect (understatement of the year)...however, you would think after 20 years of development that at least the skirt boards would draw correctly...or even better, we would have control over the size and thickness and shape of the skirt?  Novel idea...

 

Also, you would think after 20 years of development that the software would be smart enough to align all newels and rails...we should not have to manipulate a landing rail to make it "almost" align correctly with the stair rail.  Maybe if they just gave us some control over the location of the stair railing...allow us to move it in or out as needed.  

 

Well...maybe in the next CA release Chief Engineers will give us some new "stair shapes" to snap into place.  Yea...that'll help make us more productive. :blink:

 

 

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Couple more fixes.

 

Added 2 invisible walls to help make walls behave. One to align the newel on the short section of railing with its opposite, and the other to head the short wall into.

 

 

Snap3.jpg

 

And I wonder when taste will start moving back to simpler designs?

 

Snap4.thumb.jpg.3cd859fd8ac93807daa36d0041487245.jpg

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A revamping of the stair and railing tool has been asked for many many versions ago, each time I hope for an impoved stair and railing tool with no avail as I useually do maybe XX

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1 hour ago, solver said:

Couple more fixes.

 

Added 2 invisible walls to help make walls behave. One to align the newel on the short section of railing with its opposite, and the other to head the short wall into.

 

 

Snap3.jpg

 

And I wonder when taste will start moving back to simpler designs?

 

Snap4.thumb.jpg.3cd859fd8ac93807daa36d0041487245.jpg

 

Eric,

Once again...thanks for all your help.

 

Nice improvements to the elevation...

Note:  this current "award winning" elevation (sarcasm...) is something specific to the builder..and they sell it often enough to keep building it over and over.  Believe me...I wouldn't purchase any of the new homes built around my area of town...but, new homes are selling like hot cakes.  The mix of brick and stone is a current trend around here.  

 

Obviously there is no accounting for taste.  I think most people just want "NEW" and "BIGGER"....

 

- I always forget about the invisible wall trick...thanks for mentioning that.  It works wonders!

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18 hours ago, chief58 said:

A revamping of the stair and railing tool has been asked for many many versions ago, each time I hope for an impoved stair and railing tool with no avail as I useually do maybe XX

Chief already re-vamped the stair tool I believe in X8. Just didn't go as far as people want.

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