parkwest Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Not mandatory, just smart. On day one, I hand prospects a home planner guide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I don't think there's any absolute formula one needs to follow. You don't have to go to a professional designer on day one, or ever, if you are pleased with your ideas and they fit your life style and family needs. Any design almost always needs an engineer's expertise to size lumber/footings etc. but if you like the design you've come up with then build it. Chief gives even the DIY designer some great tools to visualize the finished product and there's really only one test of whether or not you've created a 'good' design and that's if it pleases you. If you rush it then you will run into trouble but if you consider many different aspects of design (they are not really all that secret) there's no reason you can't come with something more than livable. I say jump in with both feet!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Parkwest: all depends on the talent and dedication of the user I just don't think it is "mandatory" to seek a professional on day 1 some DIY may be capable - some may not Lew +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkwest Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I don't think there's any absolute formula one needs to follow. You don't have to go to a professional designer on day one, or ever, if you are pleased with your ideas and they fit your life style and family needs. Any design almost always needs an engineer's expertise to size lumber/footings etc. but if you like the design you've come up with then build it. That might work if you are paying cash for the house. The guy I referenced earlier ran into problems right off the bat when he went to get financing on his diy plans. The underwriter added a new phrase to his vocabulary, functionally obsolete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 That might work if you are paying cash for the house. The guy I referenced earlier ran into problems right off the bat when he went to get financing on his diy plans. The underwriter added a new phrase to his vocabulary, functionally obsolete. Well maybe there are some absolutes and no room for creative differences - I was probably mistaken and I've changed my mind - there is most likely only one way to proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javatom Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Apparently he likes pocket doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkwest Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Well maybe there are some absolutes and no room for creative differences - I was probably mistaken and I've changed my mind - there is most likely only one way to proceed. LOL, that is pretty much how I felt after reading thru the 2015 building codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownTiger Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Never mind I just saw his unvented roof assembly with 2x4s and birdsmouth cut (75%?) spanning 40 or 50 ft with no color tie or rafter tie. With a single 2x10(?) carrying 50% of a load for entire roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Never mind I just saw his unvented roof assembly with 2x4s and birdsmouth cut (75%?) spanning 40 or 50 ft with no color tie or rafter tie. With a single 2x10(?) carrying 50% of a load for entire roof. Really? I saw an interesting design awaiting lumber sizing and structural calcs to see how feasible the design might be to build. To the OP - have fun with your design and figure out how to build it later, it's so much more creative and a much more interesting adventure. Leave the rules behind for now and leave them for those who think those rules must be followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 To the OP - have fun with your design and figure out how to build it later, it's so much more creative and a much more interesting adventure. Leave the rules behind for now and leave them for those who think those rules must be followed Larry: I agree Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 ...To the OP - have fun with your design and figure out how to build it later, it's so much more creative and a much more interesting adventure. Leave the rules behind for now and leave them for those who think those rules must be followed. While I can agree with the general spirit of this suggestion, I would take this advice with a grain of salt and proceed with caution. The last thing you want to do is get emotionally attached to and deeply invested in a design that is structurally, financially, or otherwise unrealistic or unfeasible. Its really super easy to overlook some minor detail that can require completely altering the design. However you decide to proceed, I hope it all goes well for you : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownTiger Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 While I can agree with the general spirit of this suggestion, I would take this advice with a grain of salt and proceed with caution. The last thing you want to do is get emotionally attached to and deeply invested in a design that is structurally, financially, or otherwise unrealistic or unfeasible. Its really super easy to overlook some minor detail that can require completely altering the design. However you decide to proceed, I hope it all goes well for you : ) Exactly. Everyone loves high ceilings! This roof is costly to build and not practical. Judging by windows in the pictures, his model looks wider than the custom builder he was trying to imitate. The builders opening is 56'. In my area to have unbraced roof (snow load and wind burst) he will need a 1 3/4" x 16" LVL rafters for 28' span opening. (possibly 18") Any LVL rafter over 16" wide requires two ply's or 3.5". I will not even mention insulating roof like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Hard to imagine how badly a Frank Gehry design would freak out the 'rules' crowd on this forum. Of course there will be construction challenges. Of course every design has the potential to need structural changes. Of course it's not easy and requires a good hard look from an engineer - there's not one post here suggesting otherwise. I'm only suggesting there's a time for design and a time for engineering. Unfortunately some of us (I include myself too many times) let our engineering knowledge get in the way of free flowing design ideas which can, at times, cripple the design possibilities. I remember a homeowner who wanted a huge open floor plan like 45 ft. x 120 ft. with a huge open ceiling and I began our conversation with, "That will be very expensive and difficult." The client looked at me a little sideways and I realized I had just shut down the creative process. The design was, of course, expensive and difficult but I learned that just leaving the creative door open and my practical 'how to build it' side out the conversation was valuable in the creative process. It's not easy but try it sometime and see what changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 While I can agree with the general spirit of this suggestion, I would take this advice with a grain of salt and proceed with caution. The last thing you want to do is get emotionally attached to and deeply invested in a design that is structurally, financially, or otherwise unrealistic or unfeasible. Its really super easy to overlook some minor detail that can require completely altering the design. However you decide to proceed, I hope it all goes well for you : ) Meant only in the 'general spirit'. We all know the details can get messy and secondly I would not proceed with caution, I would proceed with abandon and see what you come up with, then deal with the 'messy'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkwest Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 To save the OP a lot of time, money and frustration, I suggest he assemble his design/build team right from the beginning and work together with his "professionals" to make his dream home come to life. My father in law proved to me a long time ago that anyone can design and build a house if they have enough time and MONEY! lol The first consideration to establish is a budget for the project and then work within that budget. We have no idea what the OP budget is so we have no idea if this is indeed feasible for him. Years ago, I had a young couple come to me with plans for a beautiful, all brick, 3 story home drawn by a local architect. At the time the house was in the $800K range. I assumed they had won the lottery or inherited a large sum of money. They were heart-broken when I told them how much building that palace would cost. They said they were only approved for a $159K loan. I called the architect to find out why he had drawn up such a plan for this couple (at $15K for his fees). He said he drew up exactly what the homebuyers had requested without ever asking how much was the budget for the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javatom Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 "have fun with your design and figure out how to build it later" That is the mentality that gives this industry a bad name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 That is the mentality that gives this industry a bad name Javatom: seriously ??? since when has design phase been a bad idea ??? have you ever heard of "back to the drawing board" ??? ever hear of "storyboarding" ??? "throwing it at the wall and seeing what sticks" ??? Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 "have fun with your design and figure out how to build it later" That is the mentality that gives this industry a bad name. I've used that mentality for many years and hopefully I haven't single handedly given the industry a bad name. I actually didn't realize 'this industry' had a bad name and if it does then it's really more individuals who have a bad name because they focus on just one part of the process and don't follow all of the suggestions in this thread. If a reader wants to take one piece of a post and make a federal case out of it one is surely free to do so but if you read all the response that same reader will not find a single suggestion to ignore any single piece of the building process. The process is complex for sure and no part should be ignored but there seems like there's room for a few wild ideas in the early stages but not for everyone and I get that. One has to follow their own course in such matters and find something that works for them. There is more than one approach that works and each designer/builder should find the one that works best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 since when has design phase been a bad idea ??? have you ever heard of "back to the drawing board" ??? ever hear of "storyboarding" ??? "throwing it at the wall and seeing what sticks" ??? Lew Maybe it's the creative application of great and creative ideas that gives this industry a 'great' name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 To save the OP a lot of time, money and frustration, I suggest he assemble his design/build team right from the beginning and work together with his "professionals" to make his dream home come to life. My father in law proved to me a long time ago that anyone can design and build a house if they have enough time and MONEY! lol The first consideration to establish is a budget for the project and then work within that budget. We have no idea what the OP budget is so we have no idea if this is indeed feasible for him. Years ago, I had a young couple come to me with plans for a beautiful, all brick, 3 story home drawn by a local architect. At the time the house was in the $800K range. I assumed they had won the lottery or inherited a large sum of money. They were heart-broken when I told them how much building that palace would cost. They said they were only approved for a $159K loan. I called the architect to find out why he had drawn up such a plan for this couple (at $15K for his fees). He said he drew up exactly what the homebuyers had requested without ever asking how much was the budget for the house. I think that's (another) fascinating topic. "What obligation does an Architect/Designer have when designing a home as regards to budget." Is it their fiduciary duty to insure their design fits within the client's budget? Do they have any other duty other than getting the client what they want? I'm sure there are some pretty strong opinions regarding same but if there's no clear agreement between the Designer and client what are the obligations? I give NO budget numbers EVER, make that clear up front, and leave all costing to the builder and client but again many different approaches out there. Started a new thread. https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/index.php?/topic/10294-construction-budgets-and-our-fiduciary-duties-as-designerarchitects/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 As an Architect, I consider it my responsibility to provide the best possible design (functionally and structurally) within the clients budget. If the client wants more than they can afford then it's my job to provide guidance. To provide a design and documents that are totally outside the realm of possibility - including budget - is a moral and professional failure. There can be a reasonable variance from budget but it must be within reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkwest Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 As an Architect, I consider it my responsibility to provide the best possible design (functionally and structurally) within the clients budget. If the client wants more than they can afford then it's my job to provide guidance. To provide a design and documents that are totally outside the realm of possibility - including budget - is a moral and professional failure. There can be a reasonable variance from budget but it must be within reason. +++1 I just posted a similar response on the new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_N Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Hi All, As a potential client, possibly one of you may be my designer, I found this thread very helpful and useful. In talking with someone, it may have been an architect, I can't remember now, the idea was put forth that one should have an architect that they connect with... I sensed the person offering the information meant an architect that didn't try to dictate, but tried to help the client sense what they wanted and flesh it out and achieve their dream. I thought that was good advice. I also think there is a lot of good advice on this thread and one can get a sense of each designer's fit with them from the responses seen here. That you all for your input. I going over to read the new thread HumbleChief started to learn more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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