GerryT

Area Analysis Now Possible In Chief

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With the public beta release of X8,  a new feature was added that made data access in Chief more user friendly. Labels have been added to polyline derived objects which allow for data gathering via macros. It is far from a perfect solution but a step (small0 in the right direction toward total data access and maybe BIM. In my opinion worth the upgrade.

 

While still much too difficult and convoluted, a possibility. To see how data collection and data analysis can be accomplished now in X8 see the videos below.

 

https://youtu.be/nvVtAqIOFiw

 

https://youtu.be/ctCfqteFQQ8

 

https://youtu.be/CXZya-DsfGs

 

https://youtu.be/zeTmYGzlrUw

 

https://youtu.be/D4pebuDMBGo

 

If you like to see more capabilities  and make data access seamless, Chief and myself would be interested in your suggestions and comments?

You will need X8 to view the Demo Files and macros ----- UPGRADE NOW!!!  X8 public beta is available now for current SSA holders.

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NO.  And you appear to be greatly uninformed as to issues discussed and obviously did not watch the videos, (open mouth before??) which is exactly why there has been so little progress in this area. Perhaps decidedly so based on your misconceptions?

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NO. And you appear to be greatly uninformed as to issues discussed and obviously did not watch the videos, (open mouth before??) which is exactly why there has been so little progress in this area. Perhaps decidedly so based on your misconceptions?

You're right. I did NOT watch the videos and frankly I don't plan to. Studying macros is a ways down my priority list right now. My question was simply out of curiousity due to the fact your statements in the previous thread were made before having access to X8.

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OH I see the confusion. My previous statements were just a warning that the minimal suggestions (polyline labels ALONE) would not be the end all as proclaimed by some and in fact would make macros usage, in Chief, more disagreeable to most. as you have just demoed. I was exactly right-- see the videos for the problem areas remaining. All I'm saying is that this is a good start for those interested and does demo what can be done with even such a minimal effort by Chief. But unless more features are added, Chief is not going to attract the new designers who require competitive features. Time moves on, and I am suggesting that Chief position their self to the current trends rather than appealing to the the old.

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To clarify...

As I understood it, Joe stated that his new macro would make it possible to complete and display area analysis calculations in a way that wasn't possible before X8.

Your response, in essence, was that it was nothing new and was already possible.

Now I see you starting a thread saying that area analysis is now possible in X8.

From what you've written it just really sounds like you're talking about the same method Joe was referring to before you knew what it was.

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Hi Jerry,

This looks interesting.  I watched the first video this evening.  I've been copying and pasting to excel, and back into to Chief for my area analysis.  This looks like a better way.

 

I'm looking forward to viewing the rest, and also would like to see the demo files.

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Michael:

I don't believe I ever said that Joe's method wound not work only that it was nothing special and that this could be done in the past with a little more effort as i had demoed via videos in the past and Joe acknowledged, (but wait you don't watch videos), and that Joe's approach was obvious as is mine. Even at that, this is only a improvement which for some still may be beyond.

Maybe I mis-stated Analysis is now easier and were on the right path but not at the line yet. Didn't think Joe's approach was all that special or helpful -- so I demoed something different and more complete. Too bad your so close minded -- You just missed out. My videos point out just some of the additional features needed to make Chief world class --only for those willing to take the time. I think my approach is a small improvement but still beyond many as I pointed out. My point --- doesn't have to be?

Bill:

All the Demo files are on Dropbox and available for download. If for some reason they not available, just email me and I'll sent by another route.

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I have  not had a chance yet to review Joe's method.  I have not had a chance to review what Gerry is talking about.

 

What I do know is that Joe and  Gerry have probably come up with a way to get an area analysis of different "boxes".  This is something I did several years ago but it was a lot of work and not reliable due to "arrows" disconnecting.

 

What I think Gerry is saying is it is still a lot of work.  I would rather not spend hours working this out with macros.  CA should come up with a way to make area analysis of multiple boxes easy peasy.  

 

I understand that if the model is built correctly with the correct room labels,  we may be able to get some sort of elementary area analysis.  Note that I said elementary,  I need something more than elementary.   I do not understand why this should be such a mystery to understand and then to come up with a solution.

 

I need to be a able to draw multiple boxes  such that the area of these boxes can be inputted into a multitude of mathematical equations.  As I have said before,  I have a word processing program and a spread sheet program where I can come up  with multiple values of the program using the different "cells".  I do not need to create macros.

 

Thank you Gerry and Joe for keeping this request alive.  Hopefully with X9,  this will be a possibility.

 

If CA does not understand the request,  they can give me a call to explain what I am looking for.

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"By Jove , I Think You Got It?"

 

Still offering gotomeeting so you can make a more informed judgement--BTW I don't think Chief is interested in anything in this area for X9 - thus the videos -- not seen.

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I have been using Joe's "Site analysis" system for months now and it seems to work for me.  I definitely couldn't have put it together myself.  I think he is working on a different system using p-line labels. It's all set up for me so I don't think about it anymore.

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I have been using Joe's "Site analysis" system for months now and it seems to work for me.  I definitely couldn't have put it together myself.  I think he is working on a different system using p-line labels. It's all set up for me so I don't think about it anymore.

Hi P.,  

 

maybe we can get together soon with a GTM,  I have an open mind,  but I am not convinced I can do what I need to do with the current system.  

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Hi P.,  

 

maybe we can get together soon with a GTM,  I have an open mind,  but I am not convinced I can do what I need to do with the current system.  

I'm not sure I could get into detail, but Joe can. He has set it all up for me. it's based on the rooms labels, and p-line labels with different line-weights.

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I would rather not spend hours working this out with macros

 

Scott:

 

I agree, I have advocated for macros for a decade now

 

but I believe that MOST features/functions should be accessable/useable without them

 

Macros are suppose to be for Power users

as a way to "automate" their workflow

 

Macros should not be the primary/only way to do a task

 

if macros become "the way" then the majority of the users will be lost in the dust

 

when I want a symbol - I have to pay someone to make it for me

 

it should be the same way for those who don't know macros and Ruby

and don't want to know

 

Lew

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I tried to watch Gerry's videos.  Unfortunately they are too long and verbose - I just don't have the time to devote to watching for that long.  Consequently I don't know what he has or hasn't done.  One thing that I did notice was that the first Area Analysis that he showed seemed to have many discrepancies in the displayed values.

 

IAE, the basic principle for using the Polyline Labels is to have a macro (only one is needed if done correctly) that can be assigned to the Label of the Polyline Objects that need to have their areas stored in a Global Variable.

 

Then, as Gerry stated a series of macros can be created to perform the appropriate calculations (add,subtract, multiply, divide) and display the results.  Some of those would be:

 

FAR (Floor Area Ratio)

Site Coverage

Total Building Area (all floors)

Total Building Area (per floor - in case there are multiple buildings)

Total Impermiable Area

etc.

 

By having each Polyline Area "named" (there are a couple of ways to do this) you can simply display the areas with their names, and use the same techniques in the calculation macros.  For those who belong to my Macro a Month Club I will provide a set of macros and a SHORT video of how to use this to do any analysis you might need.  I will have that done by next Monday, 1/18/2015.  I will post the video in this Forum (General Q & A)

 

My apologies Gerry for the Hi-Jack but it seems other users had already done so.

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All the data shown in my videos was 100% correct and accurate. I went to great care to double check that. However, almost every field was defined and calculated differently which was my thought that such complexity is required because few work consistently in the same district. I needed to demo that  capability as seamless too and straight forward.

 

Wishing you great success on your release. It can only be helpful to the cause and maybe more appropriate to those here.

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Gerry,

 

After about 10-15 minutes into the video you showed a Property Area, an Undeveloped Area, a Developed Area and a Building Area.

They didn't match up as you were explaining what you had.  At that point I quit watching because:

 

1.  I didn't believe your "spread sheet"

2.  There was no explanation of the calculations.

 

Please go back and look at those numbers shown in the video and explain.

 

Thanks, Joe

 

ps:  I don't think anyone wants to watch a video that starts with 5 minutes of your desktop and just listening to a mono-log without seeing anything actually being done.  Then you opened X8 and spent considerable amount of time showing a Plan and some Tables (including primarily the one in question).  I - and I believe most Chief Users - don't have the time to listen to you talk without a cogent demonstration of how you do the thing you are talking about.  We just don't want to watch over an hour or two for what could be shown in a single 10-15 minute video

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So,  we have Gerry and Joe having issues.  What does that tell you?  It tells me this is not ready for  prime time.  

 

CA,  this is very important stuff for me.  Please find time to put this together,  thank you.

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Joe:

 

I'm tired of this nonsense, been more than fair. - I'm done here. Those that legitimately want help know where to find it  otherwise??

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Scott,

 

You have issues. :P

 

Gerry and I do not.  We have some differences of opinion but basically agree.  CA has very little desire to provide additional access to Ruby enhancements.  I think Gerry and I both believe that with just a little bit more work on CA's part that there would be very little we couldn't do.  But there are only a few of us that make suggestions about Ruby and that means CA doesn't rank those requests as very important.  

 

The fact that they have their own "Global Macros" with data that can be displayed but that the underlying values (text or numeric) are not available to use in User Macros is to me just another indication that they aren't interested in providing anything extra.  They would definitely not want to spend the time to provide any sort of complex area analysis - so I think you can forget that idea.

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