# Creating U shaped winder stairs

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I am trying to create U shaped winder stairs.

This is what I got so far:

I used two sets of straight stairs and then with CAD polylines I created the triangle shaped steps used "Convert Polyline" > to > "Landing".

But after looking at some real U shaped stairs pictures on google I noticed that in some stairs the winders are not triangles but quadrilaterals that are narrower on one side (something like this), making the step depth a little bigger, which seems to make the stairs more comfortable to climb.

Does anyone with experience in building (real life) stairs has any tips about if using quadrilateral steps instead of triangles would be better? Or any reading material to learn the maths involved in creating this type of stairs in chief?

Having in mind that my two set of stairs will not have a space between each other. (like this, but with winders instead of a landing)

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Have you tried using two straight stairs and one curved. Maintain the gap you want through out and apply winders in the stair dbx, you should be able to get it done this way.

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Your stairs would not meet code in our area.  You must be aware of codes.  Where I live,  triangle stairs do not meet code,  minimum 6" at an edge and a minimum of 10" at walk line which is 12" away.

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Your stairs would not meet code in our area.  You must be aware of codes.  Where I live,  triangle stairs do not meet code,  minimum 6" at an edge and a minimum of 10" at walk line which is 12" away.

You can have less than 6" at an edge, but it has to be classified as a "Spiral Stair" or a "Landing".  In either case, the angle can't be less than 22.5 degrees for a "Tread" or 45 degrees for a "Landing".

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I don't think it looks like a spiral stair to me. I pretty sure Scott's post would apply.

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I have always designed stairs in our area with the minimum constriction of 4" for any tread. This satisfies the codes here.

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I agree with Scott and Perry, no way this would fly here... 6" min at the edge and 12" walk line.

R311.7.3 Walkline. The walkline across winder treads
shall be concentric to the curved direction of travel through
the turn and located 12 inches (305 mm) from the side where
the winders are narrower. The 12-inch (305 mm) dimension
shall be measured from the widest point of the clear stair
width at the walking surface of the winder. If winders are
adjacent within the flight, the point of the widest clear stair
width of the adjacent winders shall be used.
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Perry,

I agree that the OP's stair is a Winder, not a Spiral.  I was just trying to indicate that there are exceptions to the "no triangle" rule - but not for winders.

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I agree what the codes reads and should be done that way, is your area under the codes and what version, where I am we are still drawing under the 2009 IRC codes

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Same here Ray, we follow 2009 IRC

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Someone isn't enforcing it, I guess.

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By the way, I am not a professional on the field, I am just drawing some ideas for my future house. After reading the code for my country I found the minimum at the edge is 12cm (4.72 inches). But I don't think they enforce it, since I know a lot of houses that doesn't meet that min requirement. I'd still like to improve my current design anyway.

I found this method http://popularstairs.com/basic-stair-building/how-to-calculate-stairs/part2 for "balancing" the treads, but I couldn't figure out how to apply it on a U shaped stair, specially when mine doesn't have a space between the two sets of stairs (like this http://designedstairs.com/wp-content/gallery/stair-u-shape/100_6603.jpg, where the wall seems to be below the higher set of stairs, and not in the middle). I attached the plan file I am working on, but didn't get too far.

Does anyone has some reading material like that one but for U shaped stairs? Or how is this method for "balancing" treads is called in english (not my main lang btw)?, because I couldn't find much info about it on google.

stairs2.plan

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Is it some thing like this? I am afraid to state the obvious.

Bye the way, you remind me about a joke, two guys sitting in a bus side by side, one asked the other "wa.....waaa....what ..t....t..time is it rrrright now" the other guy kept silent. Again the guy repeated questioning, asked several times and the guy is not talking at all. So some one else following the two, answered him "10:30". After one minute the silent guy getting close to the other whispered, saying "mmm.....mm..my ffffffriend I was af...fff...afraid you woulddd tttakkke it I wassss... making fun of youuuu." So obviously both had the same tongue problem, like you and me( English is my 99th language) no worries. Just say what you want, some one will understand and interpret to others, like they do it for me some times.

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.....( English is my 99th language) ....

Anybody who is using their 99th language to teach CA,  must be applauded.  Yusuf,  you are an asset to this forum...you come up with some neat stuff thinking outside of the box. Please keep up the good work. Thank You.

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Anybody who is using their 99th language to teach CA,  must be applauded.  Yusuf,  you are an asset to this forum...you come up with some neat stuff thinking outside of the box. Please keep up the good work. Thank You.

Thank you very much Scott. Really glad to share ideas with you great guys.

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Is it some thing like this? I am afraid to state the obvious.

Bye the way, you remind me about a joke, two guys sitting in a bus side by side, one asked the other "wa.....waaa....what ..t....t..time is it rrrright now" the other guy kept silent. Again the guy repeated questioning, asked several times and the guy is not talking at all. So some one else following the two, answered him "10:30". After one minute the silent guy getting close to the other whispered, saying "mmm.....mm..my ffffffriend I was af...fff...afraid you woulddd tttakkke it I wassss... making fun of youuuu." So obviously both had the same tongue problem, like you and me( English is my 99th language) no worries. Just say what you want, some one will understand and interpret to others, like they do it for me some times.

That looks a lot like the first image I posted, with the wall added. Do you mind posting the .plan file to take a closer look? Thanks.

This is my last try at it:

Have to add a few steps to get the same height as the original. Looks a little better but not sure how comfortable it would be to use, never seen one like this irl.

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That looks a lot like the first image I posted, with the wall added. Do you mind posting the .plan file to take a closer look? Thanks.

This is my last try at it:

Have to add a few steps to get the same height as the original. Looks a little better but not sure how comfortable it would be to use, never seen one like this irl.

The plan.

u stair.plan

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Fellas, keep in mind that winder staircases are definitely not a safe way to go, because stairs change dimensions as you're ascending and descending.

I know around here building departments have strict rules when it comes to winder style staircases. I know it's been said before that building codes don't allow their construction in any manner, and they all require a 10" tread depth along the "line of travel" 12" from the narrow edge of the stair treads, and min 6" at the edge.

A while back there was a lawsuit and everyone lost big time, the township neglected to enforce the code, but they're insured, the designer and the builder got nailed and paid allot of money including punitive damages.

So check with your local building department before you invest your time designing this staircases so builders don't end up  ripping them out (seen that happen to a few contractors)...

As common sense goes, it is a fact that when there is a change of stair dimensions within a single staircase this is the leading cause of staircase accidents and people get hurt.

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On a side note here, the way Yusef drew the stairs still doesn't meet code anywhere that I know of.  Its close, but the narrow part is too narrow.  That being said, it is probably MUCH MUCH safer than the 2nd example in the OP.  The odd, gradual change in stair shape can only be bad.  In my humble opinion, 2 straight runs with a group of winders is much safer because you're not taken by surprise... the change in step profile is obvious and so a person is mentally prepared to deal with it.  With the odd gradual change this simply isn't true.

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On a side note here, the way Yusef drew the stairs still doesn't meet code anywhere that I know of.  Its close, but the narrow part is too narrow.  That being said, it is probably MUCH MUCH safer than the 2nd example in the OP.  The odd, gradual change in stair shape can only be bad.  In my humble opinion, 2 straight runs with a group of winders is much safer because you're not taken by surprise... the change in step profile is obvious and so a person is mentally prepared to deal with it.  With the odd gradual change this simply isn't true.

What do you think about something like this:

With treads a little shorter, it can get the same height as the other in almost the same space, and without irregular steps.

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That last example is way better than winders if you can make it work and if the treads are deep enough. The only reason to use winders in my opinion is when you need to because of space limitations.

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That last example is way better than winders if you can make it work and if the treads are deep enough. The only reason to use winders in my opinion is when you need to because of space limitations.

I used 26cm for tread depth, That's the min required in my country, not sure in the US. Looks like im gonna stick with this last simpler design. At least I learnt to handle CA a little better with all the winder stairs I tried to create.

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...Looks like im gonna stick with this last simpler design. At least I learnt to handle CA a little better with all the winder stairs I tried to create.

Sounds like an awesome attitude and a great idea

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