Larry_Sweeney Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Has anyone dealt with this problem? I have a customer that wants me to design a library with a late "18th century" look. With this idea in mind he wants beaded stiles and rails on all the frames. I suppose I could get "the look" by making custom doors and drawers with a bead around them, but how would I accomplish the beaded look where there is open shelving? Is there something in the bonus cabinet catalogs that accomplish this look? As always all advice is very appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottharris Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Larry, do you have a photo you can post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneDavis Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Beaded faceframes with inset doors is an extremely common look, particularly in Maine. Go here to this guy's blog and scroll through the pics and see. Actually, enjoy any of his stuff there, cause there is a bunch. http://www.gulfshoredesign.com/blog/?m=201402 But why is it so important to see it in a Chief rendering or 2D elevation? Can't you just get by doing plain inset doors and drawerfronts, and let the rest happen in real life? Don't any of the manufacturer libraries have this feature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Emery Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Here I've just taken a couple of minutes to make up a molding of the bead, and the 1/8" reveal. I used the molding to create a cabinet door, and applied it as an inset door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 No Gene, none in mfg catalogs. Here is one I'd fooled around with not long ago. I only got as far as a full height door, I either got busy or the immediate need faded. I set it up so to use as a full overlay with a zero reveal. The plan has the parts I used to make the symbol on the left. Wanted to be able to change the door style per job. Test cabinets are on the right. Molding profile is in between. A little more work would allow for alternated face configurations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_Sweeney Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Bill-----So it's my understanding of what you did was to make the "bead" as a custom door unit for areas of open shelving-----correct? Where there are doors and drawers you would make custom doors and drawers with the "bead moulding" around the outsider perimeter. I guess this is as close as it can be done in CA. This is a common feature for cabinets in our area also. Many of the homes I work on are restorations or reproductions of early architecture of this area---(early 19th century). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Within Chief I believe currently this is the only way to do it. Create a custom door/drawer to simulate it. Would be great if the was an option for the cabinet frame when selecting "Inset" for plain or Beaded. The custom door/drawer is fine if you are only using this style once in a while but would be very time consuming if you require this frequently. Would not surprise me if for example the Gulfshore were not using something like 2020 which works using manufacturer catalogs. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneDavis Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I am going to write a request in SUGGESTIONS that Chief add the feature to the cabinet build dialog. But note this about specifying. Mr Gulfshore Design, and you gotta admit his work is quite good, and his contractors do excellent realizations of his designs, does not need to model it in 3D. Attached is one of his cab elevations, and I have highlighted the "money quote," the key piece of annotation that describes how he sees the cabinet face arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Just played with this for a few minutes. Take a cabinet, split it vertical two times. Make the left and right opening widths your frame width. Make a left & right door model with bead only on left & right side, assign to appropriate left & right openings. For top & bottom you will need to do the same type of thing for the horizontal separation. This might work. Could also play with the Accessories Pilaster option for the verticals & make a model for the horizontal separation (frame). Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_Sweeney Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Just played with this for a few minutes. Take a cabinet, split it vertical two times. Make the left and right opening widths your frame width. Make a left & right door model with bead only on left & right side, assign to appropriate left & right openings. For top & bottom you will need to do the same type of thing for the horizontal separation. This might work. Could also play with the Accessories Pilaster option for the verticals & make a model for the horizontal separation (frame). Graham If i'm following what you are saying the labeling of these cabinets will be pretty wild in plan view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I am working on this a bit more. Doing it a bit different. Adding vertical separations to create the look. For example, left cabinet side vertical separation blank 1 1/4", right of that vertical separation opening 1/16" (creates bead groove), right of that vertical separation blank 1/4" (creates bead), right of that would be your door. Similar process needs to be done for the horizontal pieces. Just working on getting the bead to join properly in the corners. The vertical simulated beaded frame has to be split horizontally and the section heights adjusted to align the bead. The cabinet model will be fairly complex with all of the vertical & horizontal separations but once done it can be saved to the library for future use. Here's how it looks so far. White parts are the frame, door other colour. Maybe this would overcome the cabinet label issue. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Heres the above with the corner of the bead corrected. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Used a different "door kit plan"(not sure what I was doing with the last one), made up two door styles with drawers. A single and a double. 3 cabinets slammed together as if combined-Looks fine in render but in some cases hardware has to be added manually- needs clean up in elevation and vector but then I don't need this for ordering- just spec what I want. Would need a couple of configs (guess I'm half way there) and only would do this under special circumstances. I've only ever had one person even mention beads in render. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Hi Mark, that's the way I do it. Just find a door/drawer style with an outer bead or make one up. Renders correctly and then just spec it out. We are just trying to find a way to make a frame that would allow us to just drop in any door style. I am getting close but not sure Chief will accommodate this and still allow you to resize the cabinet width without the frame changing its width automatically in proportion to the new cabinet width. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Emery Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I think might work well to have a bead "door" symbol in the library. Then it would be possible to drop a bead "door" and any cabinet door into a plan. The door, and the bead "door" could be aligned, and a new combined symbol could be created (door with bead). It would then be easy to make any door beaded. I do think it would be nice to be able to specify the bead on the face frame; but for now it seems like a fairly easy work around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMc Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Graham- I understand what is being attempted. The first plan I posted allows you to change out the door to any door, create a symbol from that and use it. The problem with that one is creating combined cabinets since the door was full overlay. Here is a "kit" library. There is a single drawer, a single door, and a double door. I included each as both a symbol and as an arch block (the kit part). For reference I stuck a couple of cabinets in it. To use these symbols I set the cabinet as traditional overlay with a ZERO overlap. I set the Y access of the symbol at 13/16. That recesses it into the cabinet I've had to do this with lipped doors. (Be a good idea to open the symbols to check sizing and such.) To change door style you will have to create a new symbol but this is a kit. Just select whichever of the provided block types you need (single door, double door, drawer) drop into a new plan, explode, open the door to get dimensions and height off the floor (I'm not very consistant when creating doors Then replace the door from library with the door of your choice- change the dimensions to match the old door, make a symbol, add to library. Good to go. These will resize with cabinets (as would the first ones I posted) But they will also work with different configurations and combined cabinets (you can use the new split face tool) The downside is hardware. The drawer has to be a "false drawer" or the drawer box show through. Chief doesn't put hardware on false drawers. IF the double door symbol is used as a door you get one piece of hardware, If it is used as a door panel you get none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottharris Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 ... Where there are doors and drawers you would make custom doors and drawers with the "bead moulding" around the outsider perimeter. I guess this is as close as it can be done in CA. Larry, here's a video on creating a custom door / drawer in Chief: Creating a Custom Cabinet Door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Mark - Thanks for sharing. I can understand your approach. Fortunately in my region there is not much need for this style anymore. Most designs are going transitional, modern & contemporary. However in the New England states I can fully appreciate the demand. What I was working on before was almost there but one issue arose that would really limit its usefulness. Unfortunately there is only one element (a separation) in the cabinet configuration that I been able to find that its dimension (specifically it's width) is absolute. All other configuration components are relative to the cabinet width. For my beaded frame I used a 1/16" opening to simulate the recessed bead element, the other components frame & bead were defined as separations. Everything was fine until I increased or decreased the cabinet width, the separations remained as they should but the recessed bead element (opening) increased or decreased in width relative to the cabinets width change. A thought did cross my mind that maybe it would be useful if we could designate whether or not a cabinet component be treated as absolute or relative. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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