luckyudesign Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 Typical situation: roof sits on porch beam set at 9' ceiling but main house ceiling is raised to 10'. A dormer on the 2nd floor protrudes out over the porch area a bit and instantly the porch ceiling changes to 10'. How do you maintain a 9' porch ceiling in these situations? Porch Ceiling Question.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 2 hours ago, luckyudesign said: Typical situation: roof sits on porch beam set at 9' ceiling but main house ceiling is raised to 10'. A dormer on the 2nd floor protrudes out over the porch area a bit and instantly the porch ceiling changes to 10'. How do you maintain a 9' porch ceiling in these situations? Send it in to TS and ask them and so they log the Bug to be looked at....... as it appears the whole main floor has risen to 10' which shouldn't happen and forcing it back down will cause the porch ceiling to follow it down. Please post back if they provide a Solution.... M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgardner Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 6 hours ago, luckyudesign said: main house ceiling is raised to 10 3 hours ago, Kbird1 said: Bug to be looked at....... as it appears the whole main floor has risen to 10' which shouldn't happen Looks correct to me. Since your floor in the structure is going to plane out and not drop down 1ft at the porch just as in real life you would have two framing members in that space one for the floor structure above which would have to be at the same level as the rest and then a ceiling joist for the porch ceiling. Place a flat ceiling plane at the porch at the height you want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 14 minutes ago, rgardner said: Looks correct to me. Yes your right, the Bug though is that the Porch ceiling is jumping up to 10' and should remain at 9' and be framing separately with its' own ceiling joists as you mention. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VHampton Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 6 hours ago, rgardner said: Place a flat ceiling plane at the porch at the height you want it. That's the solution. The dormer floor should technically stop at the outer wall of the dormer. The program however doesn't know how to make the distinction when the underside of floor and ceiling are two different elevations. Designate the left side porch as having no ceiling. Use the build ceiling tool to manually build the 9 foot section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 7 hours ago, luckyudesign said: How do you maintain a 9' porch ceiling in these situations? You can add a 12" framing layer to the ceiling finish layers for the Porch. In your example, there are overlapping rooms (plan view) at different heights. Something has to give...they can't be the same and different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 Yep, it's pretty easy to fix in Chief one way or the other , I just don't think it should be happening in the 1st place ( same as the OP ) Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 29 minutes ago, Kbird1 said: I just don't think it should be happening in the 1st place ( same as the OP ) Just curious...how could it not happen? The rooms don't align in plan view so what should Chief automatically adjust? I'm interested to hear suggested corrections for this. Perhaps Chief could have a built-in auto adjustment that pops up with a warning / choice. Should Chief automatically move walls for alignment? Should Chief automatically increase the depth of the floor platform in a portion of the building? Should Chief automatically create a step in the floor platform of the upper room? Should Chief automatically add depth to the ceiling platform of the room below? There are really only 2 options for us to model these conditions. We can use invisible walls to break up rooms and align them in plan view between floor levels with multiple platform definitions, or we can define the platforms to suit our needs for rooms that fall outside of the defaults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 14 minutes ago, robdyck said: Perhaps Chief could have a built-in auto adjustment that pops up with a warning / choice. Best answer............... Chief is assuming, like in so many cases, that the User has no clue what they are doing / want and they know better ....... it should do NOTHING to the floor below. bit like how Chief, when you name a room a Garage it automagically decides for you that you need a Monolithic Slab foundation .....grrrrrrrrr. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 49 minutes ago, Kbird1 said: bit like how Chief, when you name a room a Garage it automagically decides for you that you need a Monolithic Slab foundation .....grrrrrrrrr. The answer to this one is simple...ensure no OOB settings. If you re-define that room type in your template plan, or create and define your own Garage room type, you'll never encounter that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyudesign Posted July 5, 2023 Author Share Posted July 5, 2023 So how this will be framed is the floor joist will cantilever over the 10' wall. In the real life scenario I'm working with it's a couple dormers that line up with some bay windows on the porch. The porch framing will be at 9' and will run into and and under the floor joist. The biggest problem I'm having is how it affects the front view of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyudesign Posted July 5, 2023 Author Share Posted July 5, 2023 On 7/4/2023 at 4:35 PM, robdyck said: You can add a 12" framing layer to the ceiling finish layers for the Porch. In your example, there are overlapping rooms (plan view) at different heights. Something has to give...they can't be the same and different. And adding anything to the ceiling finish layer just makes it worse because it is still framing for a 10' ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VHampton Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 Build a 2nd floor exterior wall (which travels over the porch girder). Connect the wall back to the house on (2) sides and label the new space as Attic Drop the attic floor elevation by 12" + the difference in using either 2x6's or 2x8's (for the floor) vs. the 12" dormer joists. Whatever it takes to get the underside of attic framing to bottom out @ 9.0' above the porch elevation. The porch will need a 3D solid as the ceiling layer. It's a viable solution without too much work in having to fake the ceiling layer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 @luckyudesign - This is how I'd do it. I've attached your plan so you can review/comment. Luckyu_PorchCeilingQuestion.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 @luckyudesignI was just going through a few other things and ran across this in help and it made me think of your post. Read the help file for "Lowered Ceilings". It will describe exactly what I suggested and has a similar diagram to your original post to help make it obvious. Quote from help: You can define a lowered or dropped ceiling in a room without affecting the top height of the walls by specifying the lowered ceiling framing as a layer in the Ceiling Finish Definition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 52 minutes ago, robdyck said: @luckyudesignI was just going through a few other things and ran across this in help and it made me think of your post. Read the help file for "Lowered Ceilings". It will describe exactly what I suggested and has a similar diagram to your original post to help make it obvious. Quote from help: You can define a lowered or dropped ceiling in a room without affecting the top height of the walls by specifying the lowered ceiling framing as a layer in the Ceiling Finish Definition Yes , using an Airgap Material has been a method for quite some time and work well, Chief has a Video on doing it too.... https://www.chiefarchitect.com/videos/watch/311/creating-a-suspended-or-dropped-ceiling.html PDF: CA_Help_Special Ceilings.pdf Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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