newel posts between post to beam posts

[Thewoodmaster]

What's the easiest way to add newel posts between post to beam posts  on a railing.  I need to do a single intermediate newel post between the full height posts.  

Thanks,

Matt

[GeneDavis]

Framing>post.  Easiest.

[Thewoodmaster]

8 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

Framing>post.  Easiest.

then how do i make it into a newel post

[GeneDavis]

That bay is an opening, no?

 

Tell us what you want to do, and be precise.  What you MAY have there is three linked railing walls, the bay segment invisible.

 

Or it's one wall and the bay is a doorway.

 

 

[Thewoodmaster]

i need to put a newel post halfway between the full height posts

4 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

That bay is an opening, no?

 

Tell us what you want to do, and be precise.  What you MAY have there is three linked railing walls, the bay segment invisible.

 

Or it's one wall and the bay is a doorway.

 

 

what I need to do is put a newel post halfway between all of the full height posts, like most porches, because the full height posts are too far apart to not have an intermediate newel, and nobody wants full size posts every 6 feet.  Similar to the attached photo.  Right now what i have is 4 sections of railing with a room divider in the middle where the steps will go, and the room is labeled a deck.  Is there no simple way to do this?  I figured I have been missing something.   I get that I can manually place posts, which is fine if everything is square or round, but that doesn't help if i want them to look like an actual newel post.

 

[GeneDavis]

Watch, listen, learn.  I'm on a phone, so I'll ask.  Does your sig line say what Chief version you're running?

[Thewoodmaster]

17 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

Watch, listen, learn.  I'm on a phone, so I'll ask.  Does your sig line say what Chief version you're running?

 

Treating me like I'm an idiot with the "watch, listen, learn" comment is unnecessary, demeaning, and petty.  It's also a good way to get people to not use this forum.

That video is the absolute basics of railings, I watched it again like you suggested- there is absolutely nothing in the video that shows me how to do what I asked.

If you have no idea how to do what I asked, then I will wait for someone that does.

Matt

 

[Joe_Carrick]

Hi Matt,

1. Create your Post to Beam Railing as "Open" 
2. Create another Railing "Balusters", "Rail to Post", "No Room Definition" away from the first Railing
3. Move the 2nd Railing to be Centered on the 1st.

You might need to have a series of the 2nd Rail Type that just go from Post to Post.  You might also need suppress the "End Posts".  ie: set them to "None"

 

There are other possibilities - but I've found the above works pretty well.  You can also insert a "Doorway" into the Railing as needed.

 

You can do a similar thing with the Stair by creating the railing off to the side and setting it to "Follow Stairs" before moving it into place.  It's a little tricky getting it to match up at the deck but it can be done.

[Thewoodmaster]

8 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

Hi Matt,

1. Create your Post to Beam Railing as "Open" 
2. Create another Railing "Balusters", "Rail to Post", "No Room Definition" away from the first Railing
3. Move the 2nd Railing to be Centered on the 1st.

You might need to have a series of the 2nd Rail Type that just go from Post to Post.  You might also need suppress the "End Posts".  ie: set them to "None"

 

There are other possibilities - but I've found the above works pretty well.  You can also insert a "Doorway" into the Railing as needed.

thanks, Joe

So I'm not missing anything- there isn't a way to do it with the railing tool itself?  It seems like there should be, but I have found the railing tools to be the least user friendly thing in this program.

[Joe_Carrick]

1 minute ago, Thewoodmaster said:

thanks, Joe

So I'm not missing anything- there isn't a way to do it with the railing tool itself?  It seems like there should be, but I have found the railing tools to be the least user friendly thing in this program.

It's just that there isn't a combined "Post to Beam" and "Rail to Post".

You just need to treat them as 2 separate items.  That's actually how they would be built - Structure 1st, then Railing.

 

Some users would just do this as "Framing" (Posts and Beams) and then infill with "Railings".  

 

There are lot's of different ways of doing things in Chief.  It's just a matter of finding the one that works best for you.

 

[Joe_Carrick]

10 minutes ago, Thewoodmaster said:

I have found the railing tools to be the least user friendly thing in this program.

Railings and Stairs are some of the most complex items in terms of options and how they are built.  Chief is constantly trying to improve on what's available in these tools.  I'd be very surprised not to see improvements in each new version of Chief.

[DBCooper]

Quote

 

I figured I have been missing something.   I get that I can manually place posts, which is fine if everything is square or round, but that doesn't help if i want them to look like an actual newel post.

 

 

You could just manually place the newel post from the library that you want, anywhere you want.  The picture below is just an automatic post to beam railing and then I manually added some different newel posts. 

 

 

[GeneDavis]

Your picture of a built porch throws a curveball at us.  The newels have a cap and a base, and the posts also, but the posts look to be barely bigger than the newels.  Maybe even same.  As in 5 x 5 actual size newels and 5 x 5 or 5.5 x 5.5 posts.

 

Whether you use the two rail Joe Carrick method or manually place posts right where newels are you get the top cap of the newels poking through the barrel of the posts.  See the attached.  See the newel caps showing in the posts?  And hey, try to get the posts to snap where needed.  I find I gotta do CAD detail from view to set targets for snapping.

 

I find Chief's railings tools lacking when it comes to something like this.  I am doing a curved one right now post to beam, 44" segments changing only a few degrees of turn as the panels track the curve.  Chief cannot handle it cleanly.  Nor can it do what you want here unless you go for the most basic of posts and newels.

 

I usually throw in the towel and go solids, or Sketchup and import.  I want my balusters to look the way I would build it.  When you are fudging posts into a railing, you don't get the right look, for my eye.

 

As for my throwing that video at you, I'd no idea of your expertise.  And your opening post with the question was pretty vague.

 

  

 

  

[Joe_Carrick]

8 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

Whether you use the two rail Joe Carrick method or manually place posts right where newels are you get the top cap of the newels poking through the barrel of the posts

Not if the 2nd Railings are each separate and just go from Post to Post.  I don't make such railings continuous.

[Thewoodmaster]

2 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said:

It's just that there isn't a combined "Post to Beam" and "Rail to Post".

You just need to treat them as 2 separate items.  That's actually how they would be built - Structure 1st, then Railing.

 

Some users would just do this as "Framing" (Posts and Beams) and then infill with "Railings".  

 

There are lot's of different ways of doing things in Chief.  It's just a matter of finding the one that works best for you.

 

 

1 hour ago, GeneDavis said:

Your picture of a built porch throws a curveball at us.  The newels have a cap and a base, and the posts also, but the posts look to be barely bigger than the newels.  Maybe even same.  As in 5 x 5 actual size newels and 5 x 5 or 5.5 x 5.5 posts.

 

Whether you use the two rail Joe Carrick method or manually place posts right where newels are you get the top cap of the newels poking through the barrel of the posts.  See the attached.  See the newel caps showing in the posts?  And hey, try to get the posts to snap where needed.  I find I gotta do CAD detail from view to set targets for snapping.

 

I find Chief's railings tools lacking when it comes to something like this.  I am doing a curved one right now post to beam, 44" segments changing only a few degrees of turn as the panels track the curve.  Chief cannot handle it cleanly.  Nor can it do what you want here unless you go for the most basic of posts and newels.

 

I usually throw in the towel and go solids, or Sketchup and import.  I want my balusters to look the way I would build it.  When you are fudging posts into a railing, you don't get the right look, for my eye.

 

As for my throwing that video at you, I'd no idea of your expertise.  And your opening post with the question was pretty vague.

 

  

 

  

So initially when I tried your trick, Joe, it wanted to snap the railings to everything around it, so what I ended up doing is setting the 2nd set of railings close enough to the originals to be able to line up the ends with the inside edge of the posts, but far enough away that it was out of "snap" range.  Then I converted them to symbols and moved them where they needed to go.  That allowed me to use the railing tool's ability to auto-space the balusters, and pick the newels/balusters I wanted- and not have the irritating snap function muck it back up, or have it try to stick extra newel posts where they weren't wanted.  

Thanks everyone for the insight.

Matt

[Joe_Carrick]

2 hours ago, Thewoodmaster said:

Then I converted them to symbols and moved them where they needed to go.

You didn't need to make them Symbols.  Just specify the railing wall as "No Room Definition" & "No Locate".

You can then select the Railing and "Center" on the Post to Beam railing.  You can still adjust the ends so they stop at each post.

[richoffan]

The way I do it FWIW is draw the deck / porch / whatever with the deck edge tool. Then add all posts, newels, beams, brackets etc. where I want. Then draw railing detailed as I want with no newels or posts etc. and mark it no locate. Then either make deck edge invisible or put on isolated layer and turn off. Takes a little effort the first time but save elements in warehouse file or library. It does though give complete control of everything from newels to deck overhang @ rim board.

deck detail.pdf

[richoffan]

Oh... and as for bases, caps, recesses, flutes etc. build once and save....

[jtcapa1]

This was helpful, Thank you. I'm now using the 'no locate' railing between the full height posts.

[Renerabbitt]

23 hours ago, jtcapa1 said:

This was helpful, Thank you. I'm now using the 'no locate' railing between the full height posts.

FYI No Locate simply means that Auto Exterior Dimensions will not dimension to your wall. This has no bearing on placement.