Eaveless Roof, Window Head flashing as sill and Window Head Drip Edge

[John_Charles]

Hello All

 

I am doing some messing around on a modern project and wonder if anyone can help me create settings / manipulate CA to achieve what I'm looking for without just drawing a whole lot of CAD details (which I'm doing anyway), as I need the elevations to accurately reflect what I want to do.

 

I know that the materials to be used and their substrates will need to be reflected in the wall and roof settings, but at this point I'm still trying to figure out how to do this in CA and show it reasonably.

 

Eaveless Roof - (with and without gutters)

 

I'm trying to work out how to get CA to intersect the wall and roof where the roof cover either has a small drip edge into a gutter and have the wall cover finish directly up underneath, or without a gutter as shown in the quick sketch attached below.  I have tried to manipulate settings in the attached sample file but I get no gutter when I want it and in the example of no gutter, need to know how to manipulate the wall cover up to the intersection of the roof.

 

Window Head flashing as sill / Window drip edge

 

I'm trying to work out how to use a CAD molding as a head flashing within the wall layers or window treatment so that it is also appearing to be an external sill, and as an alternative, extend the wall covering down over the head to create a drip edge.

 

Can anyone point me to some settings, how to's or help with how to achieve these?

 

Thank you.

 

J

Sample Plan.plan

[robdyck]

22 minutes ago, John_Charles said:

Eaveless Roof - (with and without gutters)

Something like this?

[robdyck]

24 minutes ago, John_Charles said:

I'm trying to work out how to use a CAD molding as a head flashing

You can create that molding, add it to the library and use it as a lintel. This molding should be drawn in section view and should stop at the the outside of the wall cladding (don't draw it to the sheathing layer.

You can use the same molding and draw a molding line in plan view or a 3d molding line in elevation view. This molding should be drawn in section view and can be drawn accurately, to the sheathing or membrane layer.

Here, I've used a library molding of a 1x8 (with drip flashing above and below) for the exterior lintel. Note that it butts up against the wall cladding.

If I draw the molding manually, I get more control over the molding, but lose the automatic resize with the window

[Kbird1]

 

For the 1st detail , you could try a pony Wall I think.....

[Gawdzira]

I think the most critical area of detailing the roof to wall with no overhang is your insurance policy.

[VHampton]

For the rain screen siding and roof merge:

 

Build a (1)" thick "roof" skin with no structure other than the framing and roof sheathing.

Meaning no fascias, sub fascias, friezes, or ridge caps.  

 

Set the overhang so that it lines up with the siding. This can be adjusted in case your roof is poking out.

With a bit of finesse, the exterior siding can be merged perfectly with the roof. (like in references images below). 

 

There may be a slight chance that you'll have to 'drag' the walls up - manually.

Likewise the same with the roof overhang.  It can be pulled in tighter to ensure the correct "look". 

 

This goes against the 'auto-build' nature of the program, but custom houses will often require a bit of manual adjusting. 

 

 

Chief has no limits in expressing the design intent. 

[VHampton]

1 hour ago, Gawdzira said:

I think the most critical area of detailing the roof to wall with no overhang is your insurance policy.

Lol. So true.  Modern houses are waterproofed to such a degree where they may as well be wearing a wetsuit. 

The products that they use under the rain screen is pretty incredible - yet VERY expensive.

[John_Charles]

3 hours ago, robdyck said:

You can create that molding, add it to the library and use it as a lintel. This molding should be drawn in section view and should stop at the the outside of the wall cladding (don't draw it to the sheathing layer.

You can use the same molding and draw a molding line in plan view or a 3d molding line in elevation view. This molding should be drawn in section view and can be drawn accurately, to the sheathing or membrane layer.

Here, I've used a library molding of a 1x8 (with drip flashing above and below) for the exterior lintel. Note that it butts up against the wall cladding.

If I draw the molding manually, I get more control over the molding, but lose the automatic resize with the window

Thanks Robert... appreciate it

[John_Charles]

3 hours ago, Gawdzira said:

I think the most critical area of detailing the roof to wall with no overhang is your insurance policy.

 

Oh I dunno..... the below was built over 30 years ago and hasn't been a problem (except for heat load)... I'm just trying to figure out how to make CA do it and asking for help so I can play with other materials.... but thanks for the input...

[John_Charles]

2 hours ago, VHampton said:

For the rain screen siding and roof merge:

 

Build a (1)" thick "roof" skin with no structure other than the framing and roof sheathing.

Meaning no fascias, sub fascias, friezes, or ridge caps.  

 

Set the overhang so that it lines up with the siding. This can be adjusted in case your roof is poking out.

With a bit of finesse, the exterior siding can be merged perfectly with the roof. (like in references images below). 

 

There may be a slight chance that you'll have to 'drag' the walls up - manually.

Likewise the same with the roof overhang.  It can be pulled in tighter to ensure the correct "look". 

 

This goes against the 'auto-build' nature of the program, but custom houses will often require a bit of manual adjusting. 

 

 

 

 

Chief has no limits in expressing the design intent. 

Excellent!!! That's what I'm looking for!! Would it be possible for you to share the roof/wall settings you used /how you extended the siding or change my sample file so I can look at it? Do you think a gutter can be added?

 

Appreciate the response....

[rlackore]

One way to cheat this:

 

1. Edit the Roof Plane Specification>Structure>Roof Layers>Surface>Roof Surface Definition material to 1/1000" thickness. It will display as "zero":

 

2. In plan view, drag the roof eaves to be flush with the exterior siding, then drag them out to be 1/1000" beyond the face of the exterior siding. This forces Chief to generate the Gable Fascia and Eave Fascia, but the value is so small that the geometry will merge nicely:

 

 

3. The section will need CAD cleanup, but it's not a bad starting point:

[Kbird1]

12 hours ago, John_Charles said:

Do you think a gutter can be added?

 

If not Auto then with a molding line fairly easily......

 

I did some examples of this look for a Client perhaps 2 yrs ago and pretty sure I did it as VH mentioned, just a lot of manual work and playing with Wall Definitions and the Roof Structure definition.

 

Mick.

[VHampton]

21 hours ago, John_Charles said:

Excellent!!! That's what I'm looking for!! Would it be possible for you to share the roof/wall settings you used /how you extended the siding or change my sample file so I can look at it? Do you think a gutter can be added?

 

Appreciate the response....

Greetings John. The file can't be opened by X-12 since it was made w/ the latest version. But that said, there is good information in this thread. 

 

Per the initial direction, the minimalist roof was made with a 1" thick roof surface. Fascias and Rakes were set to 0" - even though the program will default to 1/16th of an inch when you do that. (Overhangs were adjusted manually, and so were the walls). As per Robert's reply, a bit of "dragging" will result in the desired the effect.  

 

Lastly, a minimalist roof won't generate a gutter, but as kB has noted, the molding tool serves this purpose quite nicely. 

 

All the best. 

[John_Charles]

On 9/1/2022 at 7:17 PM, VHampton said:

Greetings John. The file can't be opened by X-12 since it was made w/ the latest version. But that said, there is good information in this thread. 

 

Per the initial direction, the minimalist roof was made with a 1" thick roof surface. Fascias and Rakes were set to 0" - even though the program will default to 1/16th of an inch when you do that. (Overhangs were adjusted manually, and so were the walls). As per Robert's reply, a bit of "dragging" will result in the desired the effect.  

 

Lastly, a minimalist roof won't generate a gutter, but as kB has noted, the molding tool serves this purpose quite nicely. 

 

All the best. 

 

 

Hello All

 

Thank you for your suggestions.... I'm 'almost' there....

 

I think I'm missing something here with the settings as I'm not able to resolve the gable or get the roof and wall joint to meet up as shown below. 

 

I'm also struggling with the porch detail which I know I can resolve the ceiling with a flat ceiling plane and a trim molding.... but wanted to ask if anyone has any other suggestions?  Because I want to have a split level I'm not sure how to have the siding show at the same levels on the porch wall?

 

I've knocked up a quick model showing the intent in X12 and attached.  The wall structure is a rain screen and I've tried it with and without the screen but can't get it to join.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

Thanks

 

Best regards

 

Sample Plan 2.plan

[Kbird1]

If you are expecting it to all join up automatically it wont AFAIK , you have to pull the Walls Up in Elevation even after "ballooning" them up as well and have to use a small fascia at least on the Gables to conceal gaps as if you pull the walls too high it will poke through the roof at the Corners on the gable ends.

 

I have played with Material thicknesses, Wall and Roof Surface Definitions etc and it is still not Perfect on the one end I have played with the walls on so far.

 

SamplePlan2_MHD.plan

 

 

[VHampton]

It's definitely achievable.

 

The trick is in manually lifting the walls to meet the roof edge.  The gable ends require manual adjustment too.

 

One thing which is required is the creation of various wall types once everything gets merged together.  The "repeat' of the siding will not always align with the roof.  Making a series of walls will allow you to set different offsets (for the texture and pattern) which will force the "repeat" to align with seams on the roof. 

 

Attached is an X-13 plan file. You can always open it with a trial version to see what's going on. I played around with the textures only... The pattern files still would need their respective settings for 2D line drawing views. 

 

All the best.  

SamplePlan2_MHD.plan

[John_Charles]

5 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

If you are expecting it to all join up automatically it wont AFAIK , you have to pull the Walls Up in Elevation even after "ballooning" them up as well and have to use a small fascia at least on the Gables to conceal gaps as if you pull the walls too high it will poke through the roof at the Corners on the gable ends.

 

I have played with Material thicknesses, Wall and Roof Surface Definitions etc and it is still not Perfect on the one end I have played with the walls on so far.

 

 

Yes I did already pull it up to get as far as I did... it's just the tweaking that's doing my head in.... I see what you did.... Thank you.... I will have a crack at that

[John_Charles]

16 minutes ago, VHampton said:

It's definitely achievable.

 

The trick is in manually lifting the walls to meet the roof edge.  The gable ends require manual adjustment too.

 

One thing which is required is the creation of various wall types once everything gets merged together.  The "repeat' of the siding will not always align with the roof.  Making a series of walls will allow you to set different offsets (for the texture and pattern) which will force the "repeat" to align with seams on the roof. 

 

Attached is an X-13 plan file. You can always open it with a trial version to see what's going on. I played around with the textures only... The pattern files still would need their respective settings for 2D line drawing views. 

 

All the best.  

SamplePlan2_MHD.plan 4.15 MB · 0 downloads

That's great thank you!  I've looked at the settings you used and I can get it pretty close except for two items....

 

I see that the thickening of the external material means that the gutter which I've got showing is 'buried' in the wall layer... Is there a way to 'offset' it to compensate for the material thickness?

 

I don't understand what you mean by the calibrated texture? I have ( I thought) used the same texture for each of the walls/roof?

 

Re the images you supplied, would you be willing to tell me your camera / view settings?  I don't normally bother with anything other than standard view as I export to Twinmotion but I like the look of what you've done there....

 

I appreciate you taking the time...

 

[VHampton]

You're quite welcome John. 

 

Again, all of the suggestions (mine) are a bit unconventional, as Chief can auto-build just about everything.  Unless the house is more straight forward (meaning traditional) sometimes a manual override helps achieve the result, even if coloring outside of the lines is often referred to as a "hack" by some users. @solver (Eric) is an expert at explaining how to get things spot on. I greatly enjoy viewing his posts even after 20 plus years of using this program. He provides excellent information on how everything gets perfectly auto-generated simply by using the correct inputs,

 

To answer your question, again some minor adjusting is required. The wall appears too high, and the roof may want to move outwards another 1/2" to 1". It's a relatively easy fix, but requires a bit of fitness and patience.  

 

Regarding the texture having various spacing... the "repeat" is technical term for the distance (on center) of the material file. 

 

By way of example, the wall texture on the rendered views has several vertical surfaces with misalignments. This is common in instances when the roof and sidewalls want to match up as per your project. Changing the horizontal space (by using a varying material type) allows the wall spacing to align with the roof. (see attached). That's what I meant by 'calibrating'. 

 

Interestingly, as you are probably aware, Twin Motion offers that handy offset tool where you can toggle the spacing to get it just right.  In CA however, the way it can be done (unless someone has a better idea) is to simply take a 3d view. With the 'rainbow tool" click on the wall, and copy the material pattern. Now you've got a new surface which can be "toggled" by spacing the horizontal offset a little bit differently each time. (see the attached). 

 

2D line drawing views don't appear to experience this issue.

It's primarily an occurrence in "rendered" views". 

 

Glad to be of help. 

 

 

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, VHampton said:

2D line drawing views don't appear to experience this issue.

It's primarily an occurrence in "rendered" views". 

 

They do , and in fact I can see in your pics that you are actually adjusting the 2D Pattern , not the 3D Texture , but I can also see in the same pic that you have the "keep Pattern and Texture sync'd" checkbox On which will automatically adjust the other one depending which tab you do the adjustment in.

Pattern = 2D ( Vector Views) 

Texture = 3D views eg Standard or PBR

 

2 hours ago, John_Charles said:

I see that the thickening of the external material means that the gutter which I've got showing is 'buried' in the wall layer... Is there a way to 'offset' it to compensate for the material thickness?

 

I think you can use the horizontal adjustment in the Gutter Profile Tab to adjust how far off the Wall (fascia) it is....

 

Mick.

[VHampton]

2 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

They do , and in fact I can see in your pics that you are actually adjusting the 2D Pattern , not the 3D Texture , but I can also see in the same pic that you have the "keep Pattern and Texture sync'd" checkbox On which will automatically adjust the other one depending which tab you do the adjustment in.

 

Thanks for noting Mick. Usually I start w/ the textures. 

 

...When I went back to show John what was meant by "calibrating" the spacing, the screen capture showed the patterns being offset, not the textures. Doh. 

 

Either way, it's quite a handy feature. -meaning that when the sync box is checked, both will rendered and 2D views will align (texture and pattern)