Best approach for drawing a simple "teahouse" style shed

[mgianzero]

Wanting to model a simple "teahouse" like structure on the property near house plan in order to determine more of the terrain landscape. 

 

It's mostly made of three 4 foot wide simple tongue & groove 1/2" panels with a simplistic 2-level roof design as shown here:

 

 

 

I thought it would be easy, but didn't see an easy way to do it.

 

Ideas?

 

Marc

[DavidJPotter]

I would define a room within a room giving the inner room a higher ceiling height, build roofs and then finish up with windows and doors.

 

DJP

[misterwiley]

You may wish to have the inner walls sit on the lower roof and not go all the way down to the floor.

 

Roof cuts wall at bottom is the setting you might need to toggle for those walls.

[mgianzero]

Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well.  I think I can make the roof design with two levels as David suggested above. 

 

But it's the walls that I find tricky.  Each wall is made of 3 panels (tongue & groove) that are framed by 1x3's and each framed panel is then screwed to each other in line.  So it's not a typical wall you'd find as part of a house or even a garage or shed (with wall types that include both framing and sheathing) on different layers but, instead, within the same layer, juxtaposed to each other - framing and panels. 

 

Then, the entire tea house sits on top of a deck supported by floor joists on piers.  So it's also not a typical deck that surrounds the house but rather fully supports the tea house on top.

 

Marc

[DavidJPotter]

DJP

[mgianzero]

David,

 

I really appreciate your efforts.  However, I think I mostly got it by using railings and posts with tongue & grove paneling.

 

This looks more of what I'm going for:

 

 

However, I still have a few problems I need to solve:

 

1)  I really want the top half of the walls to show windows that open.  Right now I have no windows.  Windows are almost like shoji screens (with opaque plexi-glass and multi-paned).  How do I do that?

2)  The deck planking needs to extend beyond the actual teahouse, but off center (21 " on two sides and 18" in front and almost flush in the back).

3)  The deck support joists need to support the overhang and almost flush to the planking all around with a deck fascia board around the perimeter.

4)  I obviously haven't placed the raised roof yet.  I will do that after I get it to look more what I want.

 

Here's my attempt so far ...

 

 

Teahouse plan.zip

[jorgearaya]

If you can create the door style you want, you can also create a wall with the thickness and layers and material you need to match the doors, the doors can be the end walls and the doors at the same time. Does that make sense? In other words the 4 foot panels can be doors or windows that just sit there along with the actual doors. If you don't want the wall to show apply a transparent material to it. Good luck.

This one kept me entertained, and it showed how versatile CA is, the various ways each finds to create things is amazing.

Here's my door concept, using stock doors, if the time is invested in making the shoji screens to match, it is rather simple to do.

One 1" wall with no material, the rest is the same door all around, I left the jambs so you can see the doors. Have fun!

Edited June 10, 2021 by jorgearaya
Added image

[rgardner]

Sorry didn't pay that much attention to the original but something like this?

Two story building with a wall with vertical siding over a layer of 2.5" depth framing, doors and windows placed with lites with a 2" casing and a 2" muntin... Main floor at 97 1/8" plate height and upstairs at a 36" plate height I think it was.  Auto roofs. Very quick terrain placement with two regions.

 

 

[mgianzero]

12 minutes ago, rgardner said:

Sorry didn't pay that much attention to the original but something like this?

Two story building with a wall with vertical siding over a layer of 2.5" depth framing, doors and windows placed with lites with a 2" casing and a 2" muntin... Main floor at 97 1/8" plate height and upstairs at a 36" plate height I think it was.  Auto roofs. Very quick terrain placement with two regions.

 

 

 

Ryan,

 

Although I appreciate your efforts, this is not what I am trying to do.  What makes this building a little different is that it is NOT a typical dwelling with framing covered with sheathing.  Rather, it is a single depth tongue / groove panel wall with framing as part of the wall. 

 

Also, it is NOT a two story building although it may look from it from the exterior.  If you are familiar with Japanese tea houses, they can have a unique raised vaulted roof but all single story - much like a gazebo.

 

I think you'll see what I am trying to do if you look at my plans thus far.  Although I need windows above the panels and making these "railing style" walls split, like pony walls, doesn't allow me to define the lower half with paneling and the upper half with shoji windows.

 

Marc

[rgardner]

25 minutes ago, mgianzero said:

 

Ryan,

 

Although I appreciate your efforts, this is not what I am trying to do. 

This is how you would properly model it in chief architect which is what you asked for right?  Maybe I am not following your wall makeup but you said its tongue and groove over 2x3 framing???  That is exactly how this wall is done.  It isn't a second story as I forgot to mention you would mark it as open below but this is how you would model it in the program.

 

[DavidJPotter]

29 minutes ago, mgianzero said:

Although I appreciate your efforts, this is not what I am trying to do. 

What Ryan and I did was EXACTLY like the photo you posted, if you wanted something else you should have not misled us.

 

DJP

[rgardner]

If you are trying to say it is an inset panel of T&G inside then you are on the right track with railing walls set to 3" wide and post to beam full height with upper and lower rails not raised and then input the windows doors the same way.

Upstairs you will still want to add a second layer with just a T&G layer as the main layer possibly and windows to the edges.

[mgianzero]

15 minutes ago, rgardner said:

This is how you would properly model it in chief architect which is what you asked for right?  Maybe I am not following your wall makeup but you said its tongue and groove over 2x3 framing???  That is exactly how this wall is done.  It isn't a second story as I forgot to mention you would mark it as open below but this is how you would model it in the program.

 

 

I know I am not explaining myself here very clearly.  That is why I provided a plan for everyone to see. 

 

Actually, it is NOT tongue and groove OVER framing.  They are tongue and groove panels that have a 3 1/2" frame AROUND the perimeter of the panels much like that you would find on a privacy fence.  A close example would be that of a "lattice fence" in CA.  However the perimeter framing is 3 1/2" instead of the standard 2 x 2".

 

[mgianzero]

24 minutes ago, rgardner said:

If you are trying to say it is an inset panel of T&G inside then you are on the right track with railing walls set to 3" wide and post to beam full height with upper and lower rails not raised and then input the windows doors the same way.

Upstairs you will still want to add a second layer with just a T&G layer as the main layer possibly and windows to the edges.

 

Yes, I think you're understanding me better here.  They are "inset panels" of T&G and they are 4 feet wide and 3 panels in a row on each side of tea house to make a 12 foot wall.  There is no sheathing, but merely the T&G panels are seen from inside and outside.  Problem with using railing/fencing as walls is that I cannot insert windows inside railing or fencing.

 

This structure is really just a fancy gazebo - single walls with T&G paneling.  But is has shoji style windows and doors on it.

[mgianzero]

29 minutes ago, DavidJPotter said:

What Ryan and I did was EXACTLY like the photo you posted, if you wanted something else you should have not misled us.

 

DJP

 

Sorry but I did not purposely mislead you here.  That picture in original post is the ACTUAL teahouse that is on the property that I am trying to draw.  

 

So assumptions were made that it was more of a traditional framed shed with redwood paneling on the outside and it is not.  That's why I said I could not build this with traditional walls with layers, but instead I was using "fencing with railing" as my walls.

[mgianzero]

13 minutes ago, solver said:

I understand what you need generally.

 

Did you answer my questions from above?

 

 

 

Yes Eric.  Even though I figured out how to make the lower walls look mostly correct with T&G paneling, I wanted the upper half of these panels to really consist of shoji screens or windows that open if possible.  It's not critical that they open, but I was trying to show homeowner some landscaping options from home that leads to the existing tea house on property.  

 

The tea house structure doesn't have to be too accurate, but I was hoping I could show the decking that holds this structure with somewhat accurate planking offsets with decking fascia board around it.  The entire tea house stands roughly one foot above a concrete block wall that is also about one foot tall.  You can see it in the actually picture I included in the original post.

 

Marc

[rgardner]

1 layer wall (5/8" T&G),3 1/2" posts placed manually, and 1 molding polyline with three moldings.

 

 

I lowered the terrain 6" here so you could see the bottom "sill" made with a molding polyline.

 

[mgianzero]

5 minutes ago, rgardner said:

1 layer wall (5/8" T&G),3 1/2" posts placed manually, and 1 molding polyline with three moldings.

 

 

I lowered the terrain 6" here so you could see the bottom "sill" made with a molding polyline.

 

 

Ryan,

 

Okay  ...   I think that's looking more like it.  Can you attach your plan so I can study it?

[rgardner]

2 hours ago, mgianzero said:

it is NOT a two story building although it may look from it from the exterior.  If you are familiar with Japanese tea houses, they can have a unique raised vaulted roof but all single story - much like a gazebo.

In chief architect this is accomplished by placing a short second story with the room specified as open below.

[rgardner]

Just now, mgianzero said:

 

Ryan,

 

Okay  ...   I think that's looking more like it.  Can you attach your plan so I can study it?

Sorry I don't have time to strip down my template plan and send it right now.  But if you follow what I wrote in my description with this picture you will be able to recreate it.  Dont think about it as not being a two story building, in chief it is.  Make the second story room open to below and you will see right through to the bottom room and set it to 36" or so with the 5/8" single layer wall type you will create out of a tongue and groove material.

[mgianzero]

10 minutes ago, rgardner said:

Sorry I don't have time to strip down my template plan and send it right now.  But if you follow what I wrote in my description with this picture you will be able to recreate it.  Dont think about it as not being a two story building, in chief it is.  Make the second story room open to below and you will see right through to the bottom room and set it to 36" or so with the 5/8" single layer wall type you will create out of a tongue and groove material.

 

Darn - I like seeing how others do things by playing around with their plans.  But CA is funny if you don't start with a clean template, you end up with all sorts of other unneeded info in your files.

 

Yes, I've done some designs before with open below to make a "false" type ceiling.  I did something similar to that in a home to make a sort-of trey ceiling.  But actually the roof design was never really my biggest concern. 

 

It was the drawing of the single layer T&G inset panel walls that was my biggest issue.  I felt I was almost there using the railing / fencing technique that surrounds a deck with an overhang since it looks almost what I wanted except for the ability to insert Shoji windows (or really any type of window) in this single layer wall.   I also had it raised up on a deck as it's foundation which is almost exactly what I have.

 

So I guess your saying it's better to define a single layer wall type with T&G panels and then you can insert any style window.  But then manually add the perimeter framing around each 4 foot wide T&G panel set, correct? 

[mgianzero]

4 minutes ago, solver said:

Lots of ways to approach this.

 

This is 2 walls in the same space. One is thin and contains the windows, the other is a No Room Def railing wall to give the structure -- post, rails and beam.

 

 

Yes!  That looks very close.  How exactly do you do that? - 2 walls in the same space.  Does one wall sit on top of the other one?  And what were your wall types defined to be?

 

I was attempting to do something like that using a pony wall, but couldn't get it to work like I wanted.

 

 

[glennw]

If you make a wall No Room Definition, you can drag it into the same location as another wall.

If you delete the No Room Definition, the wall will replace the original wall.

[rgardner]

53 minutes ago, mgianzero said:

 

Darn - I like seeing how others do things by playing around with their plans.  But CA is funny if you don't start with a clean template, you end up with all sorts of other unneeded info in your files.

 

So I guess your saying it's better to define a single layer wall type with T&G panels and then you can insert any style window.  But then manually add the perimeter framing around each 4 foot wide T&G panel set, correct? 

Sorry I usually do those plans in a stripped down template but had a slip in memory and did it in my regular template.  Time is valuable right now.

 

the method you described at the end (above) is basically it and can be done very quickly with the right tools.

[mgianzero]

2 hours ago, glennw said:

If you make a wall No Room Definition, you can drag it into the same location as another wall.

If you delete the No Room Definition, the wall will replace the original wall.

 

Very interesting.  I did not know that.

 

Thanks Glenn!