kwhitt Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I'm working on a mid-Century modern home with exposed rafters/beams and cannot figure out how to get the rafters to show up in my 3D views. I've been searching the forum and CA videos for a couple hours without any luck. The videos by Chief show decorative beams using the roof beam tool. My rafters for this build are the exposed beams. Further, I don't want the rafter tails exposed on the exterior soffit - only inside. Is it even possible to show exposed structural rafters? I would think so, but have not found a solution. Also, the finish above the rafters is 3/4" T&G. It must be a problem with how I have set up my layers. Thanks! Kevin CHF_Beacham_Shambaugh_REMODEL_07-15-20.zip 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitt Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, solver said: Have you removed the ceiling finish? Maybe check the roof structure -- uncheck Use Room Ceiling Finish. Thanks Eric. I have tried all of those things and still not showing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitt Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, solver said: You have the correct layers on too? Yes, I have all the layers turned on. Attached are images of my roof layers - surface and structure. See anything wrong here? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Your framing material is not a framing material. Change your rafters to a framing material. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 You need to edit your rafter framing material, see pic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitt Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, dshall said: You need to edit your rafter framing material, see pic Hey dshall. Thanks for catching that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitt Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, dshall said: You need to edit your rafter framing material, see pic dshall - I've done as you said and the rafters are now showing up - thanks. They are coming in white though and when I select all of them using the rafter tool, I have no option to reset the material to use default when opening all of them at once. Also, the few I have changed individually - when I switch to default material, they come in as the standard fir framing which I am guessing is driven by the default material under "framing". I can change it here, but then all of my framing will be birch, ebonized which I don't want. Also, the walls will not penetrate the beams as shown in the attached image. I'd appreciate any help with this. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I doubt you have a soffit. No soffit means the rafters are the fascia color. But you are lucky.... by putting in a soffit....... very very small with opening no material selected, you will get the rafters the color you want and I think the exterior wall will frame up to the sheathing. If that does not work for you, create the exposed rafters out of soffits or psolids. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitt Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, dshall said: I doubt you have a soffit. No soffit means the rafters are the fascia color. But you are lucky.... by putting in a soffit....... very very small with opening no material selected, you will get the rafters the color you want and I think the exterior wall will frame up to the sheathing. If that does not work for you, create the exposed rafters out of soffits or psolids. Brilliant. That did work; however, my walls (interior and exterior) have failed to meet the sheathing above the rafters. Attached is an image of the roof structure. Do I have the layers correct or should I change something to bring the wall up? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 post the plan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitt Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, dshall said: post the plan Thanks again. Attached is the latest version of it. CHF_Beacham_Shambaugh_REMODEL_07-15-20.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 not perfect. Perry might be able to help - no BOXED eaves -copy wall and put it. on upper level (that will get the interior finish to ALMOST get as high as roof sheathing CHF_Beacham_Shambaugh_REMODEL_07-15-20-2 fixed. kjbju.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitt Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, dshall said: not perfect. Perry might be able to help - no BOXED eaves -copy wall and put it. on upper level (that will get the interior finish to ALMOST get as high as roof sheathing CHF_Beacham_Shambaugh_REMODEL_07-15-20-2 fixed. kjbju.plan Thanks again for you time. I think this will be close enough for now. That said, would it work better if I were to draw the roof beams manually (as decorative beams)? Is this how most users go about it? I ask as Chief's videos highlight this method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 30 minutes ago, kwhitt said: That said, would it work better if I were to draw the roof beams manually (as decorative beams)? Is this how most users go about it? I was considering interjecting that the several beam ceilings I've done I've used either soffits or p-solids and not had the troubles you were having here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, kwhitt said: roof beams manually (as decorative beams)? Roof Beams will find the slope of the roof plane automatically and can be multicopied pretty quickly. How is that Roof Insulated if that is the correct Structure? ( maybe it isn't? ) M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, kwhitt said: Thanks again for you time. I think this will be close enough for now. That said, would it work better if I were to draw the roof beams manually (as decorative beams)? Is this how most users go about it? I ask as Chief's videos highlight this method. Did you need to raise the rafters 11.5"? Not sure if you need/want a roof structure...but, if you edit the roof "surface" and add framing at least you will get a roof system above the beams. Not sure how to deal with the gap that's created at the wall...maybe a P-Solid...or, blocking. I did this all via "auto rebuild roofs" and "auto framing" on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitt Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, DzinEye said: I was considering interjecting that the several beam ceilings I've done I've used either soffits or p-solids and not had the troubles you were having here. Mark - I think that might be the route I'll take - especially as Chief isn't doing so well where the three roofs intersect at the core of the home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitt Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 42 minutes ago, Kbird1 said: Roof Beams will find the slope of the roof plane automatically and can be multicopied pretty quickly. How is that Roof Insulated if that is the correct Structure? ( maybe it isn't? ) M. Hi Mick. Thanks for chiming in. That's a really good question. Attached are the original plans from 1973 and there doesn't appear to be any insulation other than roof sheathing and felt paper. That said, it could be that the original client opted to have the beams exposed and they deviated from the plans as there's no mention of exposed beams anywhere in this set. These building techniques date back before my time and the construction is a bit alien. It's a really cool house though and our company was fortunate to get the remodeling contract - most of which is cosmetic and on the interior. I'd really like to represent it as closely as possible in Chief. Assuming I decide to tackle this with manually drawn roof beams, what do I enter into the roof structure layers? I am sure Chief is expecting something. Do I just zero everything out and draw my own? Will the walls know how to behave in relation to the roof sheathing? I am not really sure how to go about recreating this build in Chief most efficiently. Kevin PLAN_REDACTED_06-05-20.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitt Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 21 minutes ago, SNestor said: Did you need to raise the rafters 11.5"? Not sure if you need/want a roof structure...but, if you edit the roof "surface" and add framing at least you will get a roof system above the beams. Not sure how to deal with the gap that's created at the wall...maybe a P-Solid...or, blocking. I did this all via "auto rebuild roofs" and "auto framing" on... Hi Steve. I raised the roof that amount to match the interior measurements I took at the exterior wall up to the T&G. This was the only way I could get the proper ceiling height. I have attached the original set of plans from 1973 in the last post and was trying to recreate as closely as possible. As per the plans, there is no roof system above the beams. The exposed rafters are the roof system. I think I will attempt to manually draw the structure using roof beams tomorrow - just not sure how to "override" Chief's required roof structure panel - guess I'll try zeroing everything out. Thanks for you input. Kevin Attached is an photo of the interior with all it's existing beauty - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitt Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 In this view looking at the skylight, there does appear to be something going on above the roof beams and T&G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 24 minutes ago, kwhitt said: In this view looking at the skylight, there does appear to be something going on above the roof beams and T&G. I thought the same but it’s probably just the skylight curb. Just guessing. Still guessing but maybe the T&G ceiling is a couple inches thick...then maybe a sheathing layer the the shingles? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, kwhitt said: Hi Mick. Thanks for chiming in. That's a really good question. Attached are the original plans from 1973 and there doesn't appear to be any insulation other than roof sheathing and felt paper. That said, it could be that the original client opted to have the beams exposed and they deviated from the plans as there's no mention of exposed beams anywhere in this set. These building techniques date back before my time and the construction is a bit alien. It's a really cool house though and our company was fortunate to get the remodeling contract - most of which is cosmetic and on the interior. I'd really like to represent it as closely as possible in Chief. Assuming I decide to tackle this with manually drawn roof beams, what do I enter into the roof structure layers? I am sure Chief is expecting something. Do I just zero everything out and draw my own? Will the walls know how to behave in relation to the roof sheathing? I am not really sure how to go about recreating this build in Chief most efficiently. Kevin PLAN_REDACTED_06-05-20.pdf Do you know for sure it is built with exposed (structural) Rafters with only Ply and Shingles above? it was done that way back then with 2x6 T&G though ( not 1x6) From the photos and the PDF, I was thinking perhaps you are wrong about the Roof Framing and you are actually seeing "Fake" Roof Rafters on 4'-6' Centers . and the Roof Structure is as per the PDF , ie 2x6" Rafters @16" OC with the ply and Shingles above but the photo of the Skylight may prove that thinking is wrong though? as the Roof plane looks rather thin if you allow for a 2x4 or 2x4 Curb on the Skylight. ( photos of exterior?) So it seems it wasn't built as per the plans at all if that is the case. There is no mention of Insulation at all in the Plans , so hopefully you are remedy that, Brrrrrrrr... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 2 hours ago, kwhitt said: there does appear to be something going on above the roof beams and T&G I agree with Steve & Mick.. that's just the skylight curb. Also agree with Mick that the T&G will be 2x6. As for the walls not coming up to the underside of the T&G... no need to rebuild, just use a p-solid to fill in the top. Almost certainly the walls are not framed directly to roof deck height... the rafter beams would be sitting on the plate and then they would have either in-filled to get the wall finish to continue to the roof...or mostly just put a backing nailer up there at the underside of the roof to nail the drywall too. Very commonly on these old non-insulated roofs you'll see it just as in your model, open with no finish there at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark3D Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 If you use a room molding set to the height rafter gap and a negative offset to its thickness it will fill the rafter space on the exterior walls also paint it with wall material for the interior not a perfect way but bay be usefull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitt Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 6 hours ago, SNestor said: I thought the same but it’s probably just the skylight curb. Just guessing. Still guessing but maybe the T&G ceiling is a couple inches thick...then maybe a sheathing layer the the shingles? Steve - I think you're right about the tongue & groove being thicker. It never occurred to me that they would have used 2 x 6 as it's so expensive nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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