Position of 360° Backdrop

[grubba]

I've taken several 360° panoramas of the actual building site. How do I rotate the 360° backdrop (z axis) so it aligns to the structure? That is, when I look out of a specific window, I expect to see what is actually there.

 

While at it, is CA (down) resampling these panoramas? The image quality degrades considerably once rendered within CA (compared when rendering the original pano elsewhere).

 

One image shows CA's rendering of the panorama. It's quite low resolution (and pointing about 47° away from reality). The other is a small crop of the same region when looking at the panorama outside CA. I had to crop it a lot because it seems this web site also samples the image way down.

 

 

Thanks!

 

[Chopsaw]

This will hopefully help a bit.

 

 

[grubba]

That doesn't seem to work and rotating the entire plan sounds quite drastic for something that should be a fundamental part of assigning a 360°, spherical environment map. One should be able to indicate where "north" is (or some arbitrary 0° vector within the Z axis). In addition, currently the effect only occurs when the camera is rotated. When you move the camera, it feels the same as when using a flat, 2D backdrop. It moves the the entire scene while keeping the environment map static. The intent is to realistically preview what can be seen out of windows and that does not appear to be possible. 

 

When googling for this, I found some references to mapping images to "billboards" and placing them behind windows? I could not however, find out what that means.

[Chopsaw]

1 hour ago, grubba said:

That doesn't seem to work and rotating the entire plan sounds quite drastic for something that should be a fundamental part of assigning a 360°, spherical environment map. One should be able to indicate where "north" is (or some arbitrary 0° vector within the Z axis). In addition, currently the effect only occurs when the camera is rotated. When you move the camera, it feels the same as when using a flat, 2D backdrop. It moves the the entire scene while keeping the environment map static. The intent is to realistically preview what can be seen out of windows and that does not appear to be possible. 

 

Yes that feature still needs a lot of improvements.   No harm in adding your input to the suggestion forum.

 

1 hour ago, grubba said:

 

When googling for this, I found some references to mapping images to "billboards" and placing them behind windows? I could not however, find out what that means.

 

I think that was discussed in the link I posted earlier but possibly not the basics.  Right click on your User Library folder and  select New > Image  it works the same way as 2d plants.

 

You could try applying your panoramic to the inside of a polyine solid cylinder as a material,  which can be rotated to correct the orientation.  This works fairly well and solves the dizzying model movement problem but I have not been able to do it without messing up the display of shadows.  Always some drawback.  If you could do a cylindrical billboard image I think that would work.

[Kbird1]

9 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

Right click on your User Library folder and  select New > Image  it works the same way as 2d plants.

 

Images are slightly different than Billboards , Billboards don't Rotate to the Camera... ( see page 872 of the Ref. Manual )  it's a bit like have a Huge Polyline Solid with the Image Stretched to fit it.

 

You can use Build>Image>Create Image  OR Create Billboard Image for either   but I'm not sure Billboards are available by the Library >New>Image Method

 

M.

 

 

[Chopsaw]

15 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Images are slightly different than Billboards , Billboards don't Rotate to the Camera... ( see page 872 of the Ref. Manual )  it's a bit like have a Huge Polyline Solid with the Image Stretched to fit it.

 

You can use Build>Image>Create Image  OR Create Billboard Image for either   but I'm not sure Billboards are available by the Library >New>Image Method

 

I think that is the only difference Mick.  Just the rotation which is just a checkbox in the same DBX.  

 

I was looking for a default setting the other day and sure enough chief provides the default setting for one of the three items in the same family. 

[DzinEye]

13 hours ago, grubba said:

I've taken several 360° panoramas of the actual building site. How do I rotate the 360° backdrop (z axis) so it aligns to the structure? That is, when I look out of a specific window, I expect to see what is actually there.

I noticed Chop included a link to an older thread about this, but you seem to be saying it didn't work.  My recollection was there were numerous ideas in that thread so I don't know what you tried.  My memory is that the seam in your 360 pano will automatically be at north.  So if the seam in your pano is not actually at north, but you know how far off it is from north, you might try setting north in your model to be whatever it needs to be to get your pano in the right orientation.  To do this you do not need to rotate the model, but simply in the CAD / Lines pull-down go to North Pointer and set it accordingly.  

[Chopsaw]

2 hours ago, DzinEye said:

My recollection was there were numerous ideas in that thread so I don't know what you tried.  My memory is that the seam in your 360 pano will automatically be at north.  So if the seam in your pano is not actually at north, but you know how far off it is from north, you might try setting north in your model to be whatever it needs to be to get your pano in the right orientation.  To do this you do not need to rotate the model, but simply in the CAD / Lines pull-down go to North Pointer and set it accordingly.  

 

That sounded so good I needed to try it out.  Unfortunately it does not work.  The seam defaults to East but is not affected by the North arrow so it should really be referred to as Chief's 0° which is always to the right and happens to be default East.

[DzinEye]

51 minutes ago, Chopsaw said:

 

That sounded so good I needed to try it out.  Unfortunately it does not work.  The seam defaults to East but is not affected by the North arrow so it should really be referred to as Chief's 0° which is always to the right and happens to be default East.

Dang-it!... sorry.  I knew I should've tried it out first....didn't have time.  Faulty memory.  I guess it would've just been too easy if you could control it with the North Arrow pointer.  
So the only two solutions I guess are using Photoshop or similar to create a new seam where East would be located, or do as I think Michael suggested which was to basically build a giant circular billboard around the model with a very tiny seam in it.
 

[BradKe]

I am also interested in taking 360 degree panoramas of my building sites and using them as backdrops in CA. Could your solution be as simple as adjusting the camera orientation in respect to East at the time the picture is taken?  

[Chopsaw]

2 hours ago, BradKe said:

I am also interested in taking 360 degree panoramas of my building sites and using them as backdrops in CA. Could your solution be as simple as adjusting the camera orientation in respect to East at the time the picture is taken?

 

Yes I believe so but not necessarily East but rather facing the right side of the lot or facing away from the right side of the building the way you intend to draw it.

 

Let us know how it goes.

[Lakeside-E]

On 5/12/2020 at 3:54 PM, DzinEye said:

...I think Michael suggested which was to basically build a giant circular billboard around the model with a very tiny seam in it.
 

Ive read this thread through and the older thread, wouldnt this block out the sun?

[DzinEye]

4 hours ago, Lakeside-E said:

Ive read this thread through and the older thread, wouldnt this block out the sun?

I've never done a 360 background myself, but I've done large curved ones that do almost 180... and I've never had issue with the sun

[Alaskan_Son]

6 hours ago, Lakeside-E said:

Ive read this thread through and the older thread, wouldnt this block out the sun?

Yes it definitely CAN (depending on the size and position of the symbol and the position of the sun).  I was only offering it as an alternative solution if you really want to use a panoramic image.  The Billboard image method is better for most circumstances.  It just isn't very well suited for panoramic images, typically requires several billboard images instead of just one panoramic image, and results in a much less dynamic affect when re-positioning cameras (without also repositioning billboard images that is).

[Lakeside-E]

17 hours ago, DzinEye said:

I've never done a 360 background myself, but I've done large curved ones that do almost 180... and I've never had issue with the sun

backgrounds dont block out the sun, chief knows how to handle the background in relation to it, but a cylinder solid object is different. I learned about using billboards yesterday which is the image unaffected by the sun so that is an option in some cases but still not a perfect system.

 

[Lakeside-E]

15 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Yes it definitely CAN (depending on the size and position of the symbol and the position of the sun).  I was only offering it as an alternative solution if you really want to use a panoramic image.  The Billboard image method is better for most circumstances.  It just isn't very well suited for panoramic images, typically requires several billboard images instead of just one panoramic image, and results in a much less dynamic affect when re-positioning cameras (without also repositioning billboard images that is).

yesterday i was following several threads on the topic kinda getting up to speed where everyone else has been. several talked about billboards but i thought they were just talking about the poly solid in front of a window trick ive seen before. Solver walked me through importing a billboard and now i know the difference. i didnt know if there was a way to combine the billboard feature with a cylinder around the plan trick or even a sphere around the plan trick  but it seems there is not...

 

It did just occur to me as I was typing this, could you set the material to a translucent to let some light through? My suspicion is that it would wash out the picture. has anyone tried this yet?

[TonyRichardson]

I don't know if this would work for everyone, but I had a 360 panorama background JPG photo and when I placed it as a spherical background, it was out of alignment with the house by about 30 degrees to the left. So, after some experimentation, what I did was to split my JPG photo into two and moved the right hand side of the photo to the left of the photo, then stitched both JPGs back together again. When I replaced it in HD Pro 2022, it aligned almost perfectly with the house.

 

[emac60]

I am really disappointed as I try to get a beautiful 360 photo of my clients lakeview property placed into Chief. After reading this thread, I realize that the promise of using this function is actually impossible. The tutorial video made this look simple but scaling and positioning of a 360 equirectangular photo (GoPro Max) with a design is not cutting it. I really wish I had not told my client this is possible. I tried all but the billboard suggestion above, and even tried re-generating my 360 photo oriented the way my drawing was generated. Why can't we simply have a dialog box to determine North like importing the terrain? Now that would fix the direction, but how will we ever fix the scale?

I am thoroughly dazed and confused and more importantly disappointed. 

Below is a screenshot of the 360 backdrop with the foundation of the house in place.

The house rendering is with the decks off and terrain off as I tried to scale and place the two together somewhere close to correct. The side of the house that is supposed to be facing the water is facing the almost 180 degrees out. The scale is a whole other issue that has no rhyme or reason as well. I moved the camera in chief well above the height of the house, do I need to position it back farther like it was a drone shot maybe?

Anyone have any idea what can be done?

 

[Kbird1]

4 minutes ago, emac60 said:

Anyone have any idea what can be done?

 

Try X14 , i think I read/saw of some note Changes in the new Version , should be in your Digital Locker if your SSA is Current thru June.

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/videos/playlists/173/what-s-new.html?playlist=139

 

M.

[Chopsaw]

22 minutes ago, emac60 said:

Now that would fix the direction, but how will we ever fix the scale?

 

You may be able to do both by working in a separate plan file and using an imported symbol of the house but have not actually had to do it but thinking those would be the right tools.

[emac60]

Wow, just watched the update video... thanks so much. I noticed that the dialog allows for more positioning, so I think I will go back to the site, take a new photo making sure that I know the exact orientation of the camera and try it again. I find it interesting that they didn't show an example of the new feature in use, so maybe there is still some work to do, but at least it is in the works. I am trying to find out if 14 is just beta or fully released as well. I hate to work on actual projects with a beta version, so hopefully it is fully implemented soon. I will update here as I give this all a go...

thanks so much

[emac60]

22 minutes ago, Chopsaw said:

 

You may be able to do both by working in a separate plan file and using an imported symbol of the house but have not actually had to do it but thinking those would be the right tools.

Interesting, will try it out... although it sounds like a lot of back and forth during the design process. It is frustrating that our model is supposed to float along with changes and I am always the one pushing it past its capabilities and having to do double work. I love technology, and at the same time hate it.... Thankfully Chief stays at it so well.

[glennw]

One really bad thing about the new panoramic background controls is there is no preview of the changes made in the dbx.

You can adjust the background settings in the dbx but you then have to exit the dbx to see the results.

If things aren't as you want, you have to open the dbx again, adjust the controls, exit the dbx to see the results....

We really need to see a graphical dynamic preview as the settings are changed.

I really hope this is included in the final release of X14.

[Chopsaw]

36 minutes ago, emac60 said:

I am trying to find out if 14 is just beta or fully released as well. I hate to work on actual projects with a beta version, so hopefully it is fully implemented soon.

 

It is in Public Beta now and seems to be quite stable as there is not a whole lot of discussion going on.  No reason to not try it out for situations like this.

[TeddyB]

I have found the solution to reorienting a 360 degree panorama for the proper view as a backdrop.  It is found in Chief X14 and probably in the earlier versions.  It does not require reorienting the building, which would be a disaster.  I own and use a Ricoh Theta SC which is a 360 camera and quite affordable.  The iPhone panos are stitched and the pics don't work as well as the Theta.  Here's the deal:

 

Import (as a backdrop) the 360 into the CA file and name it.  When you double click the Full Camera, the Full Camera Defaults window opens, select the backdrop image, then check Spherical Panoramic Backdop.  Notice the edits and the Horizontal Offset.  The default setting is 0.  You will have to experiment with the adjustment.  I started with 90 degrees and adjusted iin 10 degree increments in both directions, then dialed it in.

 

I have included an image of a preliminary design for a residence at a lake front showing the correct orientation.And here's the Grand View!  BTW: the Ricoh Theta takes very crisp images.  Something is lost in the import to Chief that makes it look fuzzy.  I need to work on that.  I should add that I also edit the 360 in Photoshop to rid the pic of unwanted things.....in  this case, an abandoned garden where the house will sit......in the past, I've eliminated trees, autos and even structures from the pic with Photoshop....and I have only basic skills with that software.

 

I hope this helps you folks out there!

 

Ted Broussard

(user since Version 8.5 (2003? I think)