Exterior door swing & landings


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8 hours ago, CharlesVolz said:

I had a military client who wanted out-swing exterior doors for security reasons. "A bad guy cannot kick it in as easily."

Joe is right, it's easier to open an outswing door and you can do that before someone will get to the front door or becomes aware of whats going on.

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6 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said:

But the lock is latch is easier to jimmy open and the hinges have to be NRP.

Yes. NRP hinges.

 

Nothing is as quick as kicking in a door.

 

I don't subscribe to out-swinging doors. Just another point of view from a security-minded client.

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  • 2 months later...

Doors with high wind loads should open out.

Better rain seal & wind pressure resistance.

Best to have cover/roof over all exterior doors & use fiberglass, not wood or steel for exposure to the elements.

A thief will find the path of least resistance. A sledgehammer & crowbar will breach most doors. :)

 

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On 10/28/2019 at 7:44 AM, ACADuser said:

A thief will find the path of least resistance.

 

Absolutely. 

 

On 10/28/2019 at 7:44 AM, ACADuser said:

A sledgehammer & crowbar will breach most doors.

...and a much smaller hammer will breach a window.  Heck,

 

We were working for a client years ago--changing out windows and doing a handful of other things--and she was really paranoi...er...concerned about the security of her daylight basement windows and wanted us to ad bars on them.  I had a conversation with her explaining that there were various code issues to contend with and that if someone really wanted to get in it was still easy enough to get in.  For example, yes, you might add bars to that little window, but what about the sliding glass door 15ft. to the right of that?  Anyway, fast-forward in the project...We had a lock box on the house and she took the key out one day and forgot to put it back in for us.  We showed up in the morning to get to work as scheduled after she had already left for the day and no key.  No problem, it just took us a few minutes to completely remove one of the windows we were planning on changing out anyway.  I think it was pretty disconcerting to her to see firsthand how easy it was to break into her little fortress. 

 

I still feel a little bad about that one because she was obviously already a little paranoi...er...concerned, but it went toward further proving my point.  Its really not very hard to get into the house if a person really wants to and knows how.  We do what we can, but stressing about this access point or that isn't really worth all the fuss if there's another easier way in.

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7 minutes ago, ACADuser said:

If people only knew what the walls were made of!

We use a lot of 8x8x16 CMU block walls here. I can take a 3LB sledge and in 2 minutes enter the home if I don't have any filled cells in my way.

Out here in LALA Land we virtually can't build a CMU wall without lots of steel and solid grout.  I have seen some "Garden Walls" that had little or no reinforcing but those usually get flattened the first time an earthquake occurs.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wind vs Ground shake...WA has the same ground problem but once in a while an EF1 tornado will suck a perfectly good roof right off the top plate. The shearwalls are solid but with only 110 mph design winds that joint becomes liquid to tornadoes.

 

 Back on the main track. Sweden's codes require outswing doors. Better for weather and wind. Security? Their Locks and Hinges are great...but, they also require that anyone must have access to a toilet at any time, so there is also a second security door after the front powder room. 

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That sounds strange. Quite a design restriction with a powder room so close to the front door.

I'm in a 150 MPH zone & all doors & windows are impact rated as well as wind rated but you can still have an inswing door.

The garage door are well reinforced. The CMU walls offer great shear walls and most have #5 rebar in a poured cell every 4 feet.

 

 

 

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  • 2 months later...
On 8/5/2019 at 4:17 PM, Joe_Carrick said:

In most cases homes do not have outswing doors for several reasons.

  • Security
  • Weather protection
  • Convenience 
  • .......

 

Other occupancy groups generally have more than 10 occupants and are required to have out-swinging egress doors.  It is those doors that the code is referring to and their location can be critical.  Distance of travel in a hospital, hotel, condominium, apartment building, or many other commercial buildings may require multiple egress doors.  


Agree but thought it was worth mentioning what was explained to me years ago by a door manuf rep.  He explained since most weather issues refer to wind driven rain the exterior door swing is actually more secure against this type of weather as the door gasket actually gets more compressed and thus more weather tight when being pushed by the wind.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

All - I am a simple homeowner (not at contractor/builder) - We live in AZ - on the side of our home have an area where a person could park an RV, boat or other recreational item. The area currently has crushed rock spread on the ground. I want to have the current double doors replaced. Lowes supplied the offer, but also came back with the regulation for a landing. There has never been a landing for this exit and i worry if one is put in place I may cause rain water to collect against the home foundation, which will cause other problems. Some homes in our community do not have exterior doors other than the large garage doors to give cars entrance with an interior door entering the home.

 

My question - since this door is in a garage and is not used necessarily for emergency egress does it fall under the Building Code R311.4.3???

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New codes Old house.

I would talk to the building inspector to see if they would indeed require the landing.

If so I would install a PT wood landing & remove it later if you like.
 

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