Roof defaults - inconsistency?

[jorgearaya]

I ran into the issue oh, perhaps last month and I didn't pay attention to it, just kept on drafting and fixed the roofs manually

 

1. Program defaults for roof pitch is set at 6/12
2. Selecting the Build roof tool shows pitch at 6/12
3. After checking build roof planes the roof builds
4. The built roof has 4/12 and 6/12 roof planes
5. The roof base lines fall inside the exterior walls (layers are not reversed)
6. Checking the "Same roof height at exterior walls" rebuilding the roof, sets the roof base lines properly
7. But, still have an automatic roof with two roof pitches

 

I now wonder if after the update, the wall defaults supersede the roof defaults, meaning that the wall settings for roof can have a different roof pitch forcing some of the roof planes to those defaults.

 

I will zip it up and send it to tech support over the weekend.

 

Has anyone else seen this?

 

[glennw]

 

Quote

The roof baselines will locate over the inside surface of the main wall layer, 

 

Sorry,

I meant to say the outside surface of the main layer.

[jorgearaya]

I wished you both were correct!!! Never seen this before...

[Greg_NY61]

My baseline is on the exterior of the wall (I just tried), I never saw it to be on the inside. If you look at this video I just checked it also shows on the exterior.

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/videos/watch/706/roof-baseline-polylines.html?playlist=95

[Kbird1]

The Base line is usually over the Main Wall Layer outer edge at the VRD (Vertical Rafter Distance) above the top Plate , but if you use the settings in the Build Roof DBX in the Roof Height Area like Same height Eaves , CA will change that to correctly build the Roof as you have told it too. This can include a pitch change as well.

 

The Wall DBX Roof Pitch setting , if the (D) is missing will over-ride the Default in the Build Roof DBX , it is how you usually get a single Roof plane to be difference from the rest , eg a Porch.

 

see this KB Tutorial....

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00045/changing-the-pitch-of-a-single-automatic-roof-plane.html

[jorgearaya]

Thank you all,

 

I will be sending it to tech support as an issue, as I am able to reproduce it every single time. (making sure the settings are correct) I like to post it here to make you all aware as well as in my Google Docs issues with Chief Architect that I have personally ran into and have confirmed them to be issues. It is in the "about me" section of the profile.

 

 

[Chopsaw]

I am not sure what the issue is unless you are saying you did not set the wall to 4/12.  If so then I see the issue.  And yes as Glenn has made the correction the baseline should be at the outside surface of framing ( main layer ).  Not sure this has ever happened to me, but if it is for you then good catch and I hope CA can get it fixed.

 

Can't seem to reproduce following your steps.  Are you sure your template plan is not corrupted ?

 

[Alaskan_Son]

Maybe I'm missing something, but as some of the others have already pointed out, this is completely expected behaviour.  Having a non-default pitch in your wall's roof settings will always override the default pitch.  Sounds to me like you just need to reset your walls to the default pitch.  Just switch to a wall tool, marquis select all your walls, open the dbx, click on the roof tab, and just enter the letter d into the Pitch field. 

 

Just a guess, but someone either changed the pitch in one or more individual wall definitions, changed the pitch in one or more of the wall defaults, or you're pulling a wall style from the library and that wall definition has a non-default pitch assigned.

[Kbird1]

To investigate further we would need to see the File too , as I , like Chopsaw , can not make CA do what you suggest.

 

Templates and other Plans brought forward from other Versions have been showing some weird effects at time though ,

are you using the default X10 "Residential Template" as your test File?

[jorgearaya]

Good deal, I agree with the fact that there may be something "goofy" with my default plan, I will share it on Monday as I don't have access to it from where I am this weekend.

Thank you all.

 

I may have brought in the plan template from previous versions, I don't recall, this may very well be a brand new version 20 template I have been working on for a while.

 

And just to clarify this wall default and roof default.

Roof defaults govern the build roofs dbx

You can change settings in the build roofs dbx and rebuild the roof to see the changes

If you need other than hip, wall defaults will take over and other roofs can be built from there

 

Wall defaults that have been not edited prior to building auto roofs have no bearing over the roof defaults, ie. Say all your walls have a roof pitch of 4/12, but your roof defaults are now 6/12, when you open your build roof tool, it shows 6/12 as the default roof pitch, you then choose to build the roof planes at that point, no other changes are made, your built roof should be what pitch? 4 or 6? 

 

I will let you answer that one.

[Chopsaw]

30 minutes ago, jorgearaya said:

I will let you answer that one.

 

You can only set one pitch in roof defaults, so if you want an auto roof that has more than one pitch you must use wall roof pitch settings.  Otherwise I am not sure there would be any use for wall roof pitch settings at all. Roof pitch defaults only set the pitch for walls that are set to default.   There may be a better way but having the roof pitch default override the wall roof pitch settings is not it.

[Alaskan_Son]

55 minutes ago, jorgearaya said:

Roof defaults govern the build roofs dbx

 

Specifically with regard to the pitch setting, this is not true.  There is a default pitch setting in the Build Roof dialog, but the roof will always obey the wall settings.  It's only when the wall settings are set to default (D) that the default pitch in the build roof dialog will be obeyed. 

 

55 minutes ago, jorgearaya said:

If you need other than hip, wall defaults will take over

 

This is not true either.  The roof setting in the wall dbx is what tells the roof how to build...including hips.  It has always worked this way and I can't imagine any reason to change it.  Again...if you want all your roof planes to obey the default pitch in your Build Roof dialog, then you need to set the pitch in your walls' roof settings to use default (D).

 

55 minutes ago, jorgearaya said:

Wall defaults that have been not edited prior to building auto roofs have no bearing over the roof defaults, ie. Say all your walls have a roof pitch of 4/12, but your roof defaults are now 6/12, when you open your build roof tool, it shows 6/12 as the default roof pitch, you then choose to build the roof planes at that point, no other changes are made, your built roof should be what pitch? 4 or 6? 

 

I will let you answer that one.

 

4:12  No question.  You can and will only get the results YOU are expecting if you make sure the pitch in your walls' roof tab are set to use default (D).

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, jorgearaya said:

Wall defaults that have been not edited prior to building auto roofs have no bearing over the roof defaults, ie. Say all your walls have a roof pitch of 4/12, but your roof defaults are now 6/12, when you open your build roof tool, it shows 6/12 as the default roof pitch, you then choose to build the roof planes at that point, no other changes are made, your built roof should be what pitch? 4 or 6? 

 

I will let you answer that one.

 

Walls cannot have a Roof Pitch of 4 if they have not been edited and the Roof Pitch is set to 6 in the Roof build DBX , in the Wall DBX they will show 6" (D) in that case.

 

HOWEVER if you have set your Default Exterior Wall Roof Pitch to 4" instead of using the Build Roof DBX for that, then they will ignore the Roof DBX Default setting of 6"

 

....... this maybe your Issue?

 

In your example the Roof Pitch would be 4" as Wall Directives Over ride the Default Pitch if the Wall's Directives or Defaults have been edited to 4" and the (D) removed.

 

 

 

 

[glennw]

2 hours ago, jorgearaya said:

Say all your walls have a roof pitch of 4/12, but your roof defaults are now 6/12, when you open your build roof tool, it shows 6/12 as the default roof pitch, you then choose to build the roof planes at that point, no other changes are made, your built roof should be what pitch? 4 or 6? 

 

4

Because the roof pitch setting in the wall dbx overides the roof pitch setting in the Build Roof (or Roof Defaults) dbx.

[jorgearaya]

It is fascinating how many different ways to interpret what I wrote you guys came up with, great input and thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

In short, there is no need to have to go to more than one default (D) unless you are making the change in some walls to be other than hip (Chief Architect's default roof (D) is hip. The default (D) needs to carry over and change where other "defaults exist" like the walls. Mike there, read the manual, I am in line with what it states, unless the book is wrong.

 

I get to work on that file tomorrow, will share it and send you what the settings are and what the results I get are, perhaps that will make you see what is going on, and hopefully we find what is causing it, user error maybe? We'll see.

[Alaskan_Son]

1 hour ago, jorgearaya said:

Mike there, read the manual, I am in line with what it states, unless the book is wrong.

 

What exactly are you arguing?  I haven’t been offering opinion or conjecture...just hard facts.  I think you just might have a mental block keeping you from seeing it.  Here’s what you said...

 

On 7/28/2018 at 1:43 PM, jorgearaya said:

Say all your walls have a roof pitch of 4/12, but your roof defaults are now 6/12,

 

This is simply not possible unless you changed (either purposely or accidentally) the pitch setting in you wall’s roof pane and if you did, then Chief would be working exactly as designed to build all the roof planes at a 4/12 It’s really not any more complicated than that.  Open one of your walls that seems to be misbehaving.  If you don’t see a “(D)” in the pitch field then you’ve found your problem and confirmed what 3 or 4 of us are trying to tell you.  Directly from the Reference Manual...

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

1 hour ago, solver said:

No one mentioned Roof Baseline Polylines, which override all other settings.

 

You are correct Eric.  This would  change things.  I guess I was just assuming based on the information provided that this was not the case in this particular situation.  I could be mistaken though

[jorgearaya]

Finally getting a little break here at work,

 

Thank you all for pitching in, I figured out what had happened, yes, I messed up on the templates.

So I was tasked with creating templates for several model homes (different roof pitches)

I created one with all the requested features, and I used that one to create the second one, however I just went to defaults>roof>pitch>changed it to 6>saved as template with a new name

 

When I used that new 6/12 template to draw up a home and built the roof, I got the results I noted at the beginning of the topic here, some planes were 4/12, some were 6/12, some base lines were inside the rooms, not over the main layer of the exterior wall.

 

After all your input and doing some book reading over the weekend (yes, brain freeze!!!) I forgot to go to defaults>walls>exterior wall>roof>and check what pitch that was... Well it was 4/12 from the original template. The results however were weird as you can see above.

 

Thanks Mike! 

[Kbird1]

On 7/28/2018 at 3:46 PM, Kbird1 said:

HOWEVER if you have set your Default Exterior Wall Roof Pitch to 4" instead of using the Build Roof DBX for that, then they will ignore the Roof DBX Default setting of 6"

 

18 minutes ago, jorgearaya said:

After all your input and doing some book reading over the weekend (yes, brain freeze!!!) I forgot to go to defaults>walls>exterior wall>roof>and check what pitch that was... Well it was 4/12 from the original template. The results however were weird as you can see above.

 

Thanks Mike! 

 

I don't usually change that setting and leave it on D , so the Build Roof DBX has Control unless you change a specific wall...

 

It can be changed temporarily though to draw a different part of the Project eg a Detached Garage, so you don't need to go in and change it on each wall , but it is just as easy to draw the 1st wall , change it and then drag out the rest.... and it won't case issue like this....

 

M.