Can't Find Update To Layout Command?

[Nicinus]

How do I update a semi-dynamic view in Layout such as an elevation without closing the original elevation window? So far if I wanted to update the elevation in layout I've closed the window to get the 'Update View to Layout' dbx because I couldn't seem to find a similar function in the menus, but I'm getting tired of it.

[glennw]

To update changes to the model, the only way is to close the camera view and update, or resend the view.

 

If it is only cad work drawn in an elevation view that you want to update, you don't have to close the camera view - cad work is updated automatically. 

[Nicinus]

Thanks, but isn't there a command version to get that Update View to Layout dbx? A refresh without having to go through the hoopla of closing and opening my elevation view?

[Nicinus]

I think I could use some help here understanding the workflow.

 

- If I do detail/cad line work on an elevation view and the program crashes, all my work is lost unless I saved the camera/view? Even if I saved the main plan continuously?

 

- If I send a section/elevation view to layout and create a copy of the layerset, I can then only edit that layout view by double clicking it? All changes to that layerset will only affect that particular view? If I want to adjust my line weight as much as I can in plan to have all my elevations and sections similar, I should then avoid creating a local copy, right?

[dshall]

I'm not sure if anything you said is correct. I think you are making it far more complicated than it is. Someone may disagree with me, but there is nothing you said that I could concur with

Maybe somebody else would like to elaborate..

[glennw]

I think I could use some help here understanding the workflow.

 

- If I do detail/cad line work on an elevation view and the program crashes, all my work is lost unless I saved the camera/view? Even if I saved the main plan continuously?

 

 I haven't got long so I will just do this one for now.

 

I believe that what you say is correct.

When you create an elevation view (with cad work or not) you need to save it somehow other than just saving the plan.

There are several ways to save a camera:

Sending to layout automatically saves that camera view.

In the camera's dbx, select Saved. This automatically gets checked once you send the camera view to layout.

Selecting Save Camera from the Edit toolbar with a camera selected. 

 

Normally when you close a camera view that has cad added and has not been saved, you will be asked if you want to save the camera.

This doesn't happen if you haven't added any cad work.

 

So...

If you have an unsaved elevation camera with added cad work and have a crash, chances are the camera won't be saved. 

 

I think most of that is correct, although I didn't have much time to play.

[Nicinus]

Thanks Glenn, I will try more later, but you helped me a lot.

I knew that I had saved the view to Layout as that was why I wanted to find an easier way to update the elevation after making changes on the original. After some tweaking of materials and CAD work, Chief then crashed and when I opened it up again the layout file was empty. But it since you say cameras are saved when sent to layout I checked the project browser and there it was.

But is there no auto save on Layout? I understand most is saved in Plan, and from my limited understanding that seems to be the way I'd like to work, but what about editing done directly in Layout?

[Joe_Carrick]

I avoid editing in Layout as much as possible.  Positioning and cropping & maybe a small amout of masking out unwanted items that get thru.  But ingeneral, I do everything in the Plan - notes, reference callouts, etc. mostly in the Camera Views. 

[glennw]

Joe,

 

I agree with you and work the same way.

As much editing as possible in the camera view. 

The only thing you can't do in a camera view is delete lines. 

So my mantra is the only thing I do in elevations sent to layout is delete - all adding information is done in the camera view.

This works well because if you have to resend or update the camera view to layout, you only use the deletions that you have edited in layout - all the other cad that was added in the camera view is retained.

[Doug_Park]

The terminology for saving a camera is potentially confusing. It only saves the information of the camera view in the unsaved plan. You must then choose Save to save the file.

 

Layouts and plans both use auto save.

 

It would probably be nice to have a Save All Open Files option.

 

From a software design standpoint I've always felt that Save is not something that one should have to opt-in to get. It is generally better to have that operation be an opt-out feature, but because software has done this so consistently for years, it is hard to convince people that a big change like this is a good thing.

[Nicinus]

So my mantra is the only thing I do in elevations sent to layout is delete - all adding information is done in the camera view.

This works well because if you have to resend or update the camera view to layout, you only use the deletions that you have edited in layout - all the other cad that was added in the camera view is retained.

Glenn, so what does that mean in terms of the layerset? Do you copy it to a new layerset to avoid the risk of altering the layout, or use the same in order to push changes downstream? I would think the latter, but I can also see some advantages in not being surprised. I personally do some stuff differently in elevations compared to sections (for example, I show soil in sections but not elevations so have the basement dotted in elevations).

[glennw]

I do not use Make Copy of New Layerset if that's what you mean.

[Nicinus]

Yes, that's what I meant, thanks.

 

These are more of suggestions nature, but I thought I would run it here before creating a post in the suggestions forum in case I've completely misunderstood the work flow.

- There seems to be a bit of inconsistent behavior between the display options on camera, and how they show up in layout. The line weight button affects both camera view and layout, which I guess is fine, but it would seem more logical to me that this is a work mode and layout always show line weight the way it will be printed.

- In camera, if I change the roof material it will only show in color mode and not in black and white, which is inconsistent with the way the elevation turns out in layout. The first image is what shows up in camera view, and the second after it has been sent to layout.

 

 

 

 

In general I think the line work sometimes lacks cleanliness and there are some weird differences if you compare the above camera and layout screen grabs. The graphics engine also seems to lack a proper line end capping and cornering. In camera view most lines are just truncated creating unclean corners, whereas in layout corners are rounded, also creating an undesirable look. See this magnification from a pdf.

 

 

I think this is one are where Chief's drawings could look so much better with hopefully relatively small improvements.
 

[glennw]

Have you investigated the following settings?

 

3D View Defaults...Surface Edge Lines.

and

Send to Layout...Vector View Options.

[Nicinus]

Well, first I must admit I can't seem to find how actually to set the Surface Edge Lines in either Layer nor Object Settings. I understand the over-rule in Send to Layout, but not the others. I can find the option of using the layer or the object setting to decide in the 3D view defaults, but not how I actually do it. If I change the line for example for the window layer, all lines in that object changes, not only the edge lines.

 

Regardless, above I was referring to the hash patterns such as the roof that are set in the material dbx. The hash pattern in the roof above looks different in camera compared to layout, but I think I'm getting fooled by looking at the camera in color vs black/white. If I look in color in my camera everything looks very different with colored backgrounds, and that look is only achievable in Layout if I send it as an image. And when I look in black/white I loose the gray lines I set up, as they are seen as a color to the program and everything is 100% black, which gets corrected in Layout (assuming I'm looking in color there). I think it could be worth considering a grayscale mode as well, especially when printing. I don't know what others are used to, but when I print in black/white I typically expect a gray scale, and find this slightly confusing.

 

As for my third concern with the round corners I've played with the Endcap Printed Length in Preferences but according to the manual this seems to affect non-solid lines. I've zoomed in closer on the picture above in case it wasn't clear what I meant with the corners being round.

 

[Kbird1]

is surface edge lines on ? usually is (default) and set to "use layers"    3D>3D settings>Options>surface edge lines, can be turned off though

 

you can set Color Off mode to be Greyscale not black and white in the preferences>appearance

 

I know nothing about endcaps   but have noticed the "rounded corners" if line weights are "on"

[Nicinus]

And unfortunately rounded corners are there in the prints as well, my picture above is from a pdf.

 

Good tip about the preference on gray scale vs black and white, thanks!

[Nicinus]

On a semi related note that may involve a preference somewhere. In my plan view I see the perspective cameras, and they are on layer Cameras. However, even if I turn that layer off they are still visible?

 

Their display does not get transferred to layout though so it seems like a preference somewhere that I can't seem to find.

[KilgoreTrout]

There is a setting for whether or not cameras display when the camera view is open (active). It's in the camera defaults.

 

As for the rounded corners, I don't think they are very noticeable when you actually print only when you zoom in on a computer screen.