Boxon1

Cricket framing over existing roof

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Hi Guys,

Another cry for help:

I am working on an addition that should use trusses over a simple gable roof. A piece of cake.

Only, client insists on having two small roofs at the ends of the house (pic 1.png).

There is no structural change, the ceiling in both rooms is standard flat GWB's, and roofs are only "curb appeal" request.

 

So, the cheapest solution looks to me like making standard trusses, nail the sheathing, and create 2 slightly bigger crickets over the sheathing.

-Unfortunately for me, I need to deliver accurate roof framing plan, and - here comes the problem.

 

I made standard trusses and then framed roof after trusses were placed, in hope that it will look like 1b.jpg (image property of Decks.com), giving me a section 3.png, but all I got was a mess from picture 2.png. I need to create standard framing for crickets, and literally put them on top of the main roof.

Any ideas how to do that? Any suggestion or a link to solution is welcome.

1.PNG

1b.jpg

2.PNG

3.PNG

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No help here. This is what I get.

 

 

Snap47.jpg

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CHIEF HAS NEVER BEEN ABLE TO STICK FRAME OVER TRUSSES--PLEASE FIX FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME.

YOU HAVE TO DO IT MANUALLY

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Removed trusses under main roof, built framing for stick built roof.

 

Snap55.thumb.jpg.deb395798fdfa71775c779fe5107917c.jpg

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I tried that, but problem is that ledger in not placed flat on the roof but at some strange angle. After losing the whole day on this, I am ready to give up.

I even tried playing with blockings, rafters, PSolids, but angle is still a problem.

 

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You have to ask yourself, do I really need to show that valley board, you will never see it in a plan. Sure it can be done, but for me it's not worth the trouble.

 

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It can be done with a Polyline Solid but it is still a lot of work and understandable why some people would not bother.

 

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Well, I have that idiotic habit of pushing things untillI find how to do it, but in this case, Chief won.

I was able to make a Psolid placed on the roof, at exact 6:12 pitch (not a big deal), but when I need to rotate that 2x12 to ledger position, it just won't budge.

I am about to give up and hit the sack.

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1 minute ago, Boxon1 said:

I am about to give up and hit the sack.

 

Flip me your plan file and maybe you will see it fixed in the morning.

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just a side note:  Softplan appears to have Cricket tools

 

if they work as stated it  would be nice if Chief would add this feature

 

Lew

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1 minute ago, Chopsaw said:

It can be done with a Polyline Solid but it is still a lot of work and understandable why some people would not bother.

 

 

I am uploading, but goes slowly. Looks like not my day.

1016_N_Arlington_Mill_Dr-PROPOSED-V3.plan

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3 minutes ago, lbuttery said:

just a side note:  Softplan appears to have Cricket tools

 

if they work as stated it  would be nice if Chief would add this feature

 

Lew

 

Softplan and Sketch-up and every other software that I don't have use for, because most of the clients insist on Chief. Not to mention that after all these years I bread by Chief...

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And dream in Chief. But today was one nice nightmare.

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What we need is the ability to assign some kind of "local coordinate system", without complicated calculations and brainstorming - like in AutoCAD - Grab object and click "assign user coordinate system".

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5 hours ago, Boxon1 said:
5 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

It can be done with a Polyline Solid but it is still a lot of work and understandable why some people would not bother.

 

 

I am uploading, but goes slowly. Looks like not my day.

1016_N_Arlington_Mill_Dr-PROPOSED-V3.plan

 

I wanted to help with the valley plates (ledger) where you were stuck, but the plan file has no framing or trusses at all.  Sorry but it would be best if they were all finalized and in place to build over.

 

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There are a few ways to do this.  I don't have time to go through them in much detail right now, but try this one...

 

Draw the overframe rafters using a truss base and trusses.  Just edit them as necessary in your truss detail to get the proper cuts and to delete the unnecessary parts.  For your 2x12 ledgers, I think the easiest thing might be to create 2 more roof planes made of just a single layer of material.  You won't be able to get the compound miters on your rafters and you'll have to fool with the material, layer, and display settings for your "ledger planes" but all in all, it shouldn't be that hard to do.

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Hi Boxon,  Here is the link to the post where Rod shared the file I use as a demo in the video: 

And here is a video of how I think he did this, but of course I am open to suggestions if there is a simpler way. Hope this helps.

 

 

With Michael's tip this works much better.  Not quite sure what the rules are or where they are written but boxes seem to play better on a roof than solids.

 

On 3/25/2017 at 8:19 PM, Alaskan_Son said:

If you're going to use the solid method, you can make your life a lot easier by starting with a BOX.  Draw it in plan view, then rotate it in elevation to match your roof pitch, and then LASTLY...rotate it in plan view to match your valley.  You can then offset as necessary and use boolean operations to trim it.

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9 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

 

I wanted to help with the valley plates (ledger) where you were stuck, but the plan file has no framing or trusses at all.  Sorry but it would be best if they were all finalized and in place to build over.

 

 

Sorry, I should have warned you - framing is in layer set "Framing - first floor with rafters", or something like that.

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Major problem was that roofer insisted on accurate roof framing plan, and I was too stupid to say "Yo, man, if you need such a detailed plan to make 2 crickets, don't even start the job"...

Luckily, I am doing this job on hourly base, so I will have his scalp B)...

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Chopsaw, this is an amazing video. What was most unbelievable was that  I tried the same, but made Psolid from section view, and wasn't able to rotate so it rests completely over sheathing. The trick was to make solid from the plan view.

Thanks, Man, you did a job on it!

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David Michael of Chief Tutor if you are following this thread please show your method of doing these California valleys. I cannot find your video.

David can do this under four minutes and it is really easy, involves no polyline solids by using the existing framing. I cannot remember how to do it as I never show it in 3D. I just draw 2 lines on each side of the valley on the roof plan.

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10 minutes ago, Northriver said:

David can do this under four minutes and it is really easy, involves no polyline solids by using the existing framing. I cannot remember how to do it as I never show it in 3D.

 

I am not sure if it was David who demonstrated this or not but you can use the valley rafter or a copy of it to represent the valley plates by changing the dimensions and it will look ok in 2D and not bad in 3D if you use the correct angle in a fixed image. However if you are using a valley plate as wide as a 2x12 it will be quite obvious that it does not lay flat on the roof plane.

 

Michael's method does work in X9 and may be the better option until Chief provides us with some better tools.

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So far, Chopsaw's method works just fine. I need that to be accurate mostly in 2D, for roof framing plan.

As it comes to some 3d presentation, I just intend to add one single perspective view, and get rid of this Plan File ASAP.

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It was David Michael. I learned how to use Chief by using the old Chief Tutor site. He used trusses for the main part of the house and garage. He auto framed the valley with rafters causing a valley rafter to be formed in the trusses which looked odd until he rotated and pulled out of the trusses. That what I remember.

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So did I. David's both old (and new) videos are great for learning, but I must admit that I also used a lot of Dan Baumann's stuff.

These two sites taught me how to use Chief properly.

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