glennw Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Michael, I just amended my last post as you were posting. There are a few weird things going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennw Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said: Yes, I am aware. See if you can make the joist direction arrow match your dropped ceiling material though. Michael, I don't understand. There is no material attached to the Joist Direction Arrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, glennw said: Michael, I don't understand. There is no material attached to the Joist Direction Arrow? When I said "material" I was referring to the framing material dimensions (2x6 ceiling framing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennw Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Ah, yes, I thing that's what I was alluding to when I edited my post #49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Nice job guys, thanks. I thought I had played with this years ago and it didn't work too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthd97 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Looks like Ceiling Plane tool is best used to define the dropped Ceiling Height ? When it comes to framing it out, it is a different ball game to get the right joist direction and build type. I was thinking that you should get double floor joists over a top plate external wall with a platform floor frame ? The programming logic needs to be more simple and straight forward when it comes to dbx settings and this is how CA becomes confusing. You guys here understand timber framing like most of us do. Most Architects tend to think spatially without the framing in mind. Maybe if we could separate the dbx to have a tab, that just shows the spaces of the rooms and separate tab for controling the structure and framing spaces and how it builds including joist direction etc.? I would rather manually edit the framing than mess with the dbx setting to get framing to build right every time for every method under the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennw Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 5 hours ago, mthd97 said: Looks like Ceiling Plane tool is best used to define the dropped Ceiling Height ? No, not really - where did that come from? The best tool looks to be setting the drop ceiling details in the Ceiling Finish section of the Room Specification dbx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 12 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said: Slightly different order but same basic process. I just built my framing first and then placed the joist direction lines. You placed your joist direction lines and then built framing. The biggest difference is that I had auto framing turned on. Whether it was intentional or not though, you bring up a very good point. If auto framing is turned off and we build one then the other, we no longer need to place the second joist direction in a different room... Multi-directional framing.plan Michael always seems to prove me wrong, so I anticipate he is going to rip me up for this post. I was not able to control the CJ & FJ separately, I saw Glenn do it, I saw the results from Michael, but I was not able to do it. I reposted Michael's plan, with my changes, but I was not able to change the ceiling joist direction. 1- michael built his dropped ceiling wrong, but it should not of effected the framing 2- I was not able to get my ceiling framing going in a different direction like Glenn 3- I saw Glenn do it, and it worked for him, but I was not able to achieve his results following his instructions..... I must of missed something 4- Glenn did his framing in 2 stages, floor joists first and then ceiling joists (or vice versa), I like to have auto framing on all the time because things change, so I would prefer to have a joist direction arrow for the floor joists and one for the ceiling joists, I am sure I requested this years ago, Multi-directional framing by dsh.plan vid below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Michael, if you wouldn't mind doing a quick vid showing how you would open your attached plan and change the direction of the ceiling joists. I could not open your plan and rotate the ceiling joists 37 degrees. How would you do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 Was able to duplicate Glenn's step by step method even with Auto Framing on. One thing I can't explain is why that second joist direction arrow effects the ceiling joists below and not the floor framing above. After more experimentation still don't know why the second joist direction arrow effects the ceiling joists below and not the floor framing above. Could be a bearing line function? Since there are no bearing lines between rooms perhaps the floor joists build accordingly and won't be changed until a bearing line is added? In that case the only thing left to build is the ceiling joists below? Dunno but if that's true it's a valuable bit of information. Pretty sure this last part is true. Interesting...I tried a few options and the function seemed to work until the end of the video then it didn't and got what looks like the condition you were dealing with. CORRECTION: At the end of the video I did not have ceiling joists turned on so pretty sure it was working consistently. Either way a great study in Chief and I learned a lot. Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 2 hours ago, dshall said: Michael, if you wouldn't mind doing a quick vid showing how you would open your attached plan and change the direction of the ceiling joists. I could not open your plan and rotate the ceiling joists 37 degrees. How would you do it? Quick FYI, Michael's plan seemed to work OK with changing joist direction for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, HumbleChief said: Quick FYI, Michael's plan seemed to work OK with changing joist direction for me. I wonder what I did wrong. Can you do a real real real quick vid showing how you changed CEILING JOIST DIRECTION. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 3 hours ago, dshall said: Michael, if you wouldn't mind doing a quick vid showing how you would open your attached plan and change the direction of the ceiling joists. I could not open your plan and rotate the ceiling joists 37 degrees. How would you do it? Good morning Scott, Here's a quick crappy video... By the way, 2 other quick notes before I turn my computer off for the day... 1. I'm not sure why you didn't have any framing when you opened the plan. It was there when I opened it back up. Weird. 2. I also posted another plan for you back in post #44 that had auto framing turned on. Maybe have a play with that one too if you want. The layers are upside down in that one too by the way so I'm going to go back and fix it. Sorry, I wasn't really paying too close attention to that. I was really just trying to show the ability to change joist direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Hey Michael, very good vid, I think there were some tips you pointed out that were good...... but..... I tried to replicate on my MAC....... I think the MAC works differently. I will post a vid in a second..... skip the first 2.36 hours and go to the last 1.5 minutes.... you will see that I eliminate all framing, I have 1 joist direction in plan and I build ONLY THE CEILING FRAMING, yet the ceiling framing does not obey the arrow. It might be a MAC thing. I must go to an appointment now. If you follow my utube vids, the vid might pop up in about 5 minutes.... remember, the last minute is all you need to see to understand this might be a MAC issue. BTW, you framing was there when I opened plan.... I may of deleted it at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, dshall said: Hey Michael, very good vid, I think there were some tips you pointed out that were good...... but..... I tried to replicate on my MAC....... I think the MAC works differently. I will post a vid in a second..... skip the first 2.36 hours and go to the last 1.5 minutes.... you will see that I eliminate all framing, I have 1 joist direction in plan and I build ONLY THE CEILING FRAMING, yet the ceiling framing does not obey the arrow. It might be a MAC thing. I must go to an appointment now. If you follow my utube vids, the vid might pop up in about 5 minutes.... remember, the last minute is all you need to see to understand this might be a MAC issue. BTW, you framing was there when I opened plan.... I may of deleted it at some point. I don't think its a MAC thing Scott. I just sent you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Here is what I do for a 2nd flr. over existing http://screencast.com/t/DpqwiMsQMkhZ I add my ceil to the floor structure on the 2nd floor so wherever I have a second floor it automatically frames the ceiling and new floor joists Also when I say I add a p-solid to the section ,I mean p-line filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 2 hours ago, dshall said: I wonder what I did wrong. Can you do a real real real quick vid showing how you changed CEILING JOIST DIRECTION. Thanks Looks like Michael answered your question with a nice video. I'd like to add one thing to this discussion and that is I think the features that Chief has for framing are brilliant and very flexible, really impressed with what can be done in Chief. Without this forum it would more difficult to figure out, but with it - brilliant. Thanks for everyone's input, I for one really appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 hour ago, DRAWZILLA said: Here is what I do for a 2nd flr. over existing http://screencast.com/t/DpqwiMsQMkhZ I add my ceil to the floor structure on the 2nd floor so wherever I have a second floor it automatically frames the ceiling and new floor joists Also when I say I add a p-solid to the section ,I mean p-line filled. Perry, I just used this technique on a remodel we have in the building department now. We ran a double sill plate around the existing ceiling joists (using the floor above's structure) and set the new second floor joists on top of that - worked a treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthd97 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Hi Glenn, that was a question, that is where that came from. Thanks now I can see what you prefer to use to build your framing. CA is not going to create metal soldiers for us automatically. I am not going to waste hours fighting the program or prove that I can come up with a work around to get my framing close as possible to what I deem is standard practice for Carpenters in my area. If I have a Builder client breathing down my neck to give him the timber framing quantity so he can put in his price I would hold him up and he may miss the job. Besides I am not well enough to work overtime as a slave and not get paid for CA testing. Every person who uses CA has the right like you to choose how they use it and what extra time it takes to do their job. If you are good at using the program to produce framing, then get a job with CA producing Videos for us to save time. Thanks and I respect that you are a proficient user. I like CA to produce an unframed close to perfect model first then have it produce the framing close to what I want then edit the framing manually. Then manipulate the model so the cross section is as close as possible to perfect. Thanks mate all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 19 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said: I don't think its a MAC thing Scott. I just sent you a PM. I got the PM, you think it is broken. I sent in a bug report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 7 hours ago, dshall said: I got the PM, you think it is broken. I sent in a bug report. That's not exactly what I said. To clarify, I think it's working just fine in most situations, but there is something unique on your end that I think is causing the problem and I don't think it has anything to do with MAC vs. PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said: That's not exactly what I said. To clarify, I think it's working just fine in most situations, but there is something unique on your end that I think is causing the problem and I don't think it has anything to do with MAC vs. PC. Sorry for this misquote. Bottom line, I cannot control the direction of fj and cj independently...... something that has been an issue for me for 6+ years. I assume it is my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 21 minutes ago, dshall said: Sorry for this misquote. Bottom line, I cannot control the direction of fj and cj independently...... something that has been an issue for me for 6+ years. I assume it is my problem. Me too, it would be nice, but I don't even want to try with 14 rooms it could get a little harry, nice but too much trouble still, I'll just stick to my method for 2 stories, until Chief deals with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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