SAM & Template New Drawing Methods

[jbaehmer]

7 minutes ago, dshall said:

I would not be surprised if my latest plans origination was from a plan I worked on 8 years ago.....  the original SAM template.   I know CA says not to do it, but I did and I have and I continue to use it.  One day I may start from scratch.

 

I feel the reason CA says not to do it that way is because room information is "remembered".  So if you delete all the walls from a plan and redraw a simple 4 sided room, the area that room takes up will have the room name and structure type as the room prior.  If it compiles over years, it could have things deep within the program that are unknown and then we could see it as a "bug" when really CA is just remembering what was there prior.

 

I had talked to Dermot years ago about it when he mentioned this and I told him that I took a OOB plan and layout file and went through every little default I could find and adjust to my liking.  He said that was a good way to do it as you use have a template that you use the SAM on and you don't have any "remembered" room information.  Now, there could be additional info besides rooms, but that one is big enough for me not use use the SAM on a prior clients plan.....unless they are building the exact same house with very minor modifications.

 

The only downside I feel with the way I have it is that when I create new layers, layer-sets, annosets, etc., I have to export it and import it into my template.  Also, when new versions come out, I have to go through and check to see how things work still.  I know when X9 comes out I will have to do that and go through my template, but I feel everyone has to do that whether they use a template or SAM.

 

Definitely not a knock on Scott's SAM method...I use it, just slightly different....

[HumbleChief]

16 minutes ago, jbaehmer said:

 

I feel the reason CA says not to do it that way is because room information is "remembered".  So if you delete all the walls from a plan and redraw a simple 4 sided room, the area that room takes up will have the room name and structure type as the room prior.  If it compiles over years, it could have things deep within the program that are unknown and then we could see it as a "bug" when really CA is just remembering what was there prior.

 

I had talked to Dermot years ago about it when he mentioned this and I told him that I took a OOB plan and layout file and went through every little default I could find and adjust to my liking.  He said that was a good way to do it as you use have a template that you use the SAM on and you don't have any "remembered" room information.  Now, there could be additional info besides rooms, but that one is big enough for me not use use the SAM on a prior clients plan.....unless they are building the exact same house with very minor modifications.

 

The only downside I feel with the way I have it is that when I create new layers, layer-sets, annosets, etc., I have to export it and import it into my template.  Also, when new versions come out, I have to go through and check to see how things work still.  I know when X9 comes out I will have to do that and go through my template, but I feel everyone has to do that whether they use a template or SAM.

 

Definitely not a knock on Scott's SAM method...I use it, just slightly different....

Interesting Jared. I knew there was a reason to not use SAM over and over but not sure the problem really manifests itself in real life.

 

And even if you use a template as your starting point you are constantly using the SAM method just in a little different form. For example > open your template plan and the first thing you do is 'Save As' the template plan to a new job name. This new plan file is basically what Scott ends up with after stripping the information from an existing plan to begin a new plan. This plan then gets re-referenced in the Layout as shown and voila you're off to the races. It looks a little different but is basically the same process without the benefit of having your latest plan file information updated automatically. The template method requires you to update your latest plan file information manually and it's not a small task trying to keep up. After a few months of working with Templates your template file is pretty bullet proof but add another ANNO Set or framing spec or whatever and you have to manually change the template.

 

SAM still looks really easy and still can't remember why I couldn't make it work for my work flow. Maybe it would if tried tomorrow but too busy right now to change things up. Or maybe need another card in my not so full deck? 

[jbaehmer]

7 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Interesting Jared. I knew there was a reason to not use SAM over and over but not sure the problem really manifests itself in real life.

 

And even if you use a template as your starting point you are constantly using the SAM method just in a little different form. For example > open your template plan and the first thing you do is 'Save As' the template plan to a new job name. This new plan file is basically what Scott ends up with after stripping the information from an existing plan to begin a new plan. This plan then gets re-referenced in the Layout as shown and voila you're off to the races. It looks a little different but is basically the same process without the benefit of having your latest plan file information updated automatically. The template method requires you to update your latest plan file information manually and it's not a small task trying to keep up. After a few months of working with Templates your template file is pretty bullet proof but add another ANNO Set or framing spec or whatever and you have to manually change the template.

 

SAM still looks really easy and still can't remember why I couldn't make it work for my work flow. Maybe it would if tried tomorrow but too busy right now to change things up. Or maybe need another card in my not so full deck? 

Exactly...I am using the SAM method, just with my template and not the last client.  In my template, I drew a plan so I could have some elevations and cross sections so I could send them to layout.  The SAM is still the way to go....it is just what you use when you use the SAM.  I use my template that doesn't have any "remembered" info.  Some use the last clients plans.  They both work, depending on who is using it.  I feel using the template gives me less headaches.

[michaelgia]

7 hours ago, dshall said:

 

Can you believe it,  he offered me supper,  not dinner.  My Mom is English,  we eat supper at her house,  everywhere else in the  USA we eat dinner.  I hope you are  FRENCH/Canadian,  if so,  I would be that supper would be awesome.  I hope to take you up on your offer sometime in the future.

 

Here is my take on the  SAM:

 

PART 1

PART 2 

PART 3

 

This is stuff I originally did about 9 years ago,  but it still holds up.  

 

Hey thanks a million Scott! Although I've seen your past videos a million times on the SAM method (which I use) these 3 new videos cleared a few things up, or rather simplified the process for me. 

 

What I still struggle with, is that some views won't update, either because the link has been deleted or no longer exists, but it's still in my layout even after "update all views". As a result I've sent plans into the city with phone calls coming back asking -  "what the heck are you referencing on page X?" A little embarrassing. 

 

I wonder why we can't just right click on a view in layout and see which plan file it originates from?  Or when a view is highlighted their isn't a bubble or label at the bottom that pops up with the source file name. That would help. Or am I missing something. (Rather than having to double click to open the view in order to see which plan it comes from.)

 

Anyway, thanks again. The offer stilll stands.

 

I didn't realize "supper" was, as it seems, a linguistic remnant from our former Brittish overlords, lol. 

We also still use chesterfield for sofa. 

[HumbleChief]

10 minutes ago, michaelgia said:

I wonder why we can't just right click on a view in layout and see which plan file it originates from?  Or when a view is highlighted their isn't a bubble or label at the bottom that pops up with the source file name. That would help. Or am I missing something. (Rather than having to double click to open the view in order to see which plan it comes from.)

Michael re-check a couple of the videos - there's a really simple way of checking which plan file each view comes from. I show it many, many times. It's the re-link files icon in the tool bar. Looks like 2 zeros interconnected - check at about 3:24 in the first video post #17. It is one of the main tools for getting all files referenced properly if something goes amiss.

[michaelgia]

3 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Michael re-check a couple of the videos - there's a really simple way of checking which plan file each view comes from. I show it many, many times. It's the re-link files icon in the tool bar. look like 2 zeros interconnected

That "double O" icon just seems to open up the file explorer in order to select which new file you want to link. Or at least that's how it works on a Mac. 

Even the pop up bubble says - "Choose a new plan file for this layout box". 

It doesn't actually display which file is linked to that layout box. 

[HumbleChief]

Weird. I wouldn't think a MAC would operate that much differently. Here's how my PC works. The tool is invaluable. Maybe call tech support and find out where a similar tool is on the MAC?

 

 

 

[Joe_Carrick]

1. Select the Layout Box
2. Open the dbx
3. Select the Label Tab
4. Specify Label
5. Insert Object Specific > Referenced Full Filename

The Label will display the Plan File name including the path.

[dshall]

11 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

1. Select the Layout Box
2. Open the dbx
3. Select the Label Tab
4. Specify Label
5. Insert Object Specific > Referenced Full Filename

The Label will display the Plan File name including the path.

obviously I did something wrong.

 

No worries,

 

[HumbleChief]

20 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

1. Select the Layout Box
2. Open the dbx
3. Select the Label Tab
4. Specify Label
5. Insert Object Specific > Referenced Full Filename

The Label will display the Plan File name including the path.

Cool Joe - Thanks. I used just the file name and I think that will help in the future.

[HumbleChief]

Hey Scott does your MAC work like my PC and the re-link files icon? Or not work like MichaelGia's and his MAC?

[michaelgia]

21 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

1. Select the Layout Box
2. Open the dbx
3. Select the Label Tab
4. Specify Label
5. Insert Object Specific > Referenced Full Filename

The Label will display the Plan File name including the path.

Wow that was easy...

thanks to all of you. So amazing!

[Joe_Carrick]

22 minutes ago, dshall said:

obviously I did something wrong.

 

No worries,

 

DUH!!!

In your case since you don't seem to be able to follow step-by-step instructions, just enter %referenced_full_filename%

[michaelgia]

48 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Weird. I wouldn't think a MAC would operate that much differently. Here's how my PC works. The tool is invaluable. Maybe call tech support and find out where a similar tool is on the MAC?

 

 

 

It does work differently on the Mac. I noticed on your PC it actually displays the file name at the top, which is a clear way to do that. 

On the MAC as a result of exploring a little (thanks to your video) I did notice that while there is no plan file name displayed at the top, the plan file is actually in bold in the main window.  I never noticed that before. Pretty dumb of me. 

Thanks. 

Although, I do wish the Mac would behave in the same way that the PC does. 

It's more obvious. 

[dshall]

2 minutes ago, michaelgia said:

......On the MAC as a result of exploring a little (thanks to your video) I did notice that while there is no plan file name displayed at the top, the plan file is actually in bold in the main window.  I never noticed that before. Pretty dumb of me. 

......

 

pretty dumb of me......  I do not see it,  GIA,  would you mind posting a screen shot.....

 

Larry,  my MAC works like GIA's,  

 

thanks Joe for the macro,  however I use the label in layout and I do not want to see   the 1,386 character path.... it's never been a problem since I claim I know I am doing......  usually I know what I am doing....

[SNestor]

1 hour ago, HumbleChief said:

Weird. I wouldn't think a MAC would operate that much differently. Here's how my PC works. The tool is invaluable. Maybe call tech support and find out where a similar tool is on the MAC?

 

 

 

Larry...why would you need to update specific layout boxes...just link (reference) the layout to a new plan file and the layout boxes (except for camera views) should automatically update?

 

Am I right?  Hell...I have no idea.  But I watched Scott's videos and he never updated a single layout box. 

 

It's interesting to me that Chief has Never put a series of videos together to show systems or methods on how to use CA with layout and plan files.  I realize there are a number of methods...but maybe at least one series showing a "possible" system would be helpful.

[Joe_Carrick]

1 minute ago, dshall said:

 

pretty dumb of me......  I do not see it,  GIA,  would you mind posting a screen shot.....

 

Larry,  my MAC works like GIA's,  

 

thanks Joe for the macro,  however I use the label in layout and I do not want to see   the 1,386 character path.... it's never been a problem since I claim I know I am doing......  usually I know what I am doing....

Scott, You can also use %referenced_filename% which will show a lot less.  BTW, this is just one of the macros (name:value pairs) provided by Chief. 

[HumbleChief]

45 minutes ago, SNestor said:

Larry...why would you need to update specific layout boxes...just link (reference) the layout to a new plan file and the layout boxes (except for camera views) should automatically update?

 

Am I right?  Hell...I have no idea.  But I watched Scott's videos and he never updated a single layout box. 

 

It's interesting to me that Chief has Never put a series of videos together to show systems or methods on how to use CA with layout and plan files.  I realize there are a number of methods...but maybe at least one series showing a "possible" system would be helpful.

If you ever have to update a specific layout box that tool is there for your use. Some times I need it, sometimes I don't, just good to know it's there.

 

If you have everything set up properly everything will automatically update INCLUDING camera views - which is the whole idea of referencing the proper files and associated cameras.

[michaelgia]

1 hour ago, dshall said:

 

pretty dumb of me......  I do not see it,  GIA,  would you mind posting a screen shot.....

 

Larry,  my MAC works like GIA's,  

 

thanks Joe for the macro,  however I use the label in layout and I do not want to see   the 1,386 character path.... it's never been a problem since I claim I know I am doing......  usually I know what I am doing....

Here is a screenshot showing the referenced planfile in bold or rather, everything else greyed out....

It's not really obvious, right? 

(Don't mind the strange file names. Very indecisive client, had to come up with funny file names to keep track of her constant revisions)

 

[SNestor]

15 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

If you ever have to update a specific layout box that tool is there for your use. Some times I need it, sometimes I don't, just good to know it's there.

 

If you have everything set up properly everything will automatically update INCLUDING camera views - which is the whole idea of referencing the proper files and associated cameras.

 

Ahh...got it.  Thanks Larry.  I'm trying to set my own "system" up...these discussions and the videos really help.