Floor Joist Insanity

[Doug_N]

I have a strange problem with floor joists on this project.  Once again a client-supplied file that I have made lots of adjustments to, but when I generate floor joists each room on the second floor generates a rim joist around it, and the joists go all over the place.

 

Here is a view of the first floor prior to generating joists.

 

And here is the view of automatically generated joists 

 

Note the seemingly random direction of joists in closets and in some floor panels.  Why is the program generating floor joists around each second floor room?

Floor_Framing_Problem.zip

[Doug_N]

As a side note:

This is the same plan that was causing double floor layers that Michael sorted out.  

[Alaskan_Son]

I don't even know where to start, but here's where YOU can start...

-Inspect the ceiling heights.  They're not consistent.

-Inspect the Joist Direction Arrows.  There are a whole bunch of these that may be giving some specific instructions that you may not actually be wanting.

-Check walls that are set as Bearing Walls.  There are some of these that may be giving some specific instructions to the joists that you may not be wanting.

-Check the walls that are set to Hang Floor Platform Above On Wall.  There are some of these that are affecting how the joists build as well

-Look for Bearing Lines.  There are also some of these that may be adversely affecting how your joists build.

 

All these issues are similar to the last issue I inspected for you.  It's not a problem with the program.  It's really just a bunch of faulty settings. 

[Doug_N]

Michael,

 

Thanks again.  I will check all of those, this particular project is really giving me heartburn.

[Chopsaw]

Doug,  Did the client draw that or did they buy an "Almost Complete" plan file from someone they fired ?

 

There is some pretty nasty work in there for sure.   Good luck.

 

Noticed a bunch of walls on the upper level that were not at Default Bottom Height.

 

Also some broken roof framing.

 

Sometimes when things are that messy or complex it is good to get all of your layout views set up so deficiencies are easier to see as they would show in the final layout.  Then you can just deal with the worst first.

[Doug_N]

Ok so I checked all the ceiling heights and corrected all of them.  Then I made sure all floor elevations were correct for the first and second floor.  

Next I turned all the interior walls to "No Room Definition" and the floor joists generated correctly.

 

So then I deleted a few walls on the second floor, and the joists under the walls corrected.  So I replaced the wall with a "vanilla" interior wall, 1/2" drywall, 2 x 4 studs 16" OC.and the damned system once again created a rim joist under the vanilla wall.  

[Doug_N]

I tried to duplicate the problem in a fresh plan file, and if I change any second storey floor height it makes rim joists around that room.  If I make that room go back to default floor height, then the problem goes away.  That isn't the case in my client's plan.  That plan was created by him using Home Designer.  

 

For a first-timer, he did a remarkable job of getting the as-built design done but with a bucket load of hand grenades as well.  The double floor generation was one such problem that Michael managed to uncover, but this rim joist and floor joist direction phenomenon just has me baffled.

[Alaskan_Son]

You mention changing the floor/ceiling heights and changing the wall types, but did you check those other settings I mentioned?  They were all major contributing factors in that plan.

[robdyck]

@Doug_NIf this is a renovation / addition project, why would you model the existing framing? You can reduce your heartburn by eliminating all existing framing. There's simpler ways to indicate the relationship between proposed new elements and the existing. Why not save your energy to show new items only?

[Doug_N]

1 minute ago, robdyck said:

@Doug_NIf this is a renovation / addition project, why would you model the existing framing? You can reduce your heartburn by eliminating all existing framing. There's simpler ways to indicate the relationship between proposed new elements and the existing. Why not save your energy to show new items only?

Robert,

 

The problem is that there is a mix of new framing matching up with the existing framing.  There are second storey additions to the rear and the front of the house.  several existing second storey joists are going to be removed and replaced with cantilevered joists.  

[Doug_N]

13 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

You mention changing the floor/ceiling heights and changing the wall types, but did you check those other settings I mentioned?  They were all major contributing factors in that plan.

Yup, I did all of that.

[Alaskan_Son]

12 minutes ago, Doug_N said:

Yup, I did all of that.

 

...and have you made any additional progress?

[Doug_N]

Ok guys Michael came through again.  There was still one closet with a slightly different floor level, but the real answer was a new feature in X12 framing groups.  More on this later. 

 

Thanks Michael.

[Hammer7]

I'm having these same issues with a recent plan.  Did you find a way to review the hierarchy of settings?

 

[Doug_N]

26 minutes ago, Hammer7 said:

I'm having these same issues with a recent plan.  Did you find a way to review the hierarchy of settings?

 

Yes, first of all make sure all rooms have default values for floor and ceiling heights (unless you have a specific reason for making them something else.)

Then make sure all rooms are in the same framing group.

Framing should then work properly.  If there is a room with a floor level other than the default, that room will have a rim joist all around it.