Terrain/Landscape question

[Rashid_Garuba]

Hello,

 

I usually don't do much terrain in Chief but required... The First picture is my destination... The highlighted walls are my focus.. I am using a couple of Spline Terrain walls and 3 elevation regions.. Is there a way to get these walls to control the Terrain as fiddling with regions at some point starts affecting the walls... Perhaps I am on the wrong path entirely..? Preferably the walls change the elevation with no further interaction. 

5935 Olde Atlanta Pkwy.plan

[Renerabbitt]

34 minutes ago, Rashid_Garuba said:

Perhaps I am on the wrong path entirely

You need a terrain break and a terrain retaining wall..stay tuned

[Renerabbitt]

I didn't notice your sig, I used X-11 so you won't be able to open it, just line up your regions with the footing line of the terrain retaining wall and line up the terrain break with the stem wall on the high side.I would probably try a poly solid for your stepped walls since you have no slope left to right, if you did it would be a challenge

[Rashid_Garuba]

Rene,

 

Actually I do have X11 (not using yet) so please post the file.. Will update sig.

 

Thanks

[Renerabbitt]

1 hour ago, Rashid_Garuba said:

Rene,

 

Actually I do have X11 (not using yet) so please post the file.. Will update sig.

 

Thanks

5935 Olde Atlanta Pkwy.plan think thats it

[glennw]

If it were me, i would forget about terrain retaining walls - they introduce too many problems and are not needed for a level top wall.

A Terrain Retaining wall actually contains a Terrain Break.

I would shape the terrain using only Terrain Breaks, Elevation Regions, and Elevation Lines.

I would then use a Molding polyline with stacked and offset moldings for the retaining walls, something like this.

You can assign different material offsets for each course to get the correct bond appearance.

 

[Alaskan_Son]

3 hours ago, glennw said:

If it were me, i would forget about terrain retaining walls - they introduce too many problems and are not needed for a level top wall.

Totally agree.  I almost never use them. 

[glennw]

I quickly added a darker colored capping block  to this one - all are on the same molding polyline.

With a couple of more minutes work, it would also be easy to get the 2/3 block coursing shown in the original pic.

 

[Renerabbitt]

32 minutes ago, glennw said:

I quickly added a darker colored capping block  to this one - all are on the same molding polyline.

With a couple of more minutes work, it would also be easy to get the 2/3 block coursing shown in the original pic.

 

 

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Totally agree.  I almost never use them. 

For this particular case I see the terrain break being an option but look at the bleed through of the terrain...how do you do the other side where it is just a straight wall?... that's also a heavily stepped set of courses to cover the terrain breaks flaws as well...terrain breaks don't precisely cut even when you set it to 0, not like a retaining wall will do...and it wouldn't even be an option if we had additional slope going in multiple directions...I'd have to stick to my guns here, terrain break is a solid method to learn, ...add the molding(nice idea) for the course work and it is fool proof..

take these for example, so much easier using the terrain retaining wall:

[glennw]

Rene,

Please don't be too critical of the model I posted.

I built the wall in a metric plan and then copied and pasted into either the original or your plan which are imperial - so the units got a bit screwey.

The bleed of the terrain is just me being sloppy and not wanting to spend the time to fixing  the terrain and elevation regions.

That would be no problem to clean up.

I didn't even use a terrain break - I left it up to the Elevation Regions to work it out between themselves and I didn't really edit them much - only enough to convey the idea.

I was mainly interested in building the retaining wall using a molding polyline rather than sorting the terrain out.

5 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

I'd have to stick to my guns here, terrain break is a solid method to learn,

 Didn't I say this?

I agree, Terrain Break is a solid method to learn, a Terrain Retaining Wall is not. 

Just draw a Terrain Retaining wall perpendicular to the contours and have a look at the walls top - a mess that is almost impossible to use.

There is no problem getting a vertical cut when using a Terrain Break - you just need to place Elevation Lines or Elevation Regions close to the Terrain Break which define the top and bottom levels.

 

In the end it's whatever works best for you.

[dshall]

4 hours ago, glennw said:

Rene,

Please don't be too critical of the model I posted.

I built the wall in a metric plan and then copied and pasted into either the original or your plan which are imperial - so the units got a bit screwey.

The bleed of the terrain is just me being sloppy and not wanting to spend the time to fixing  the terrain and elevation regions.

That would be no problem to clean up.

I didn't even use a terrain break - I left it up to the Elevation Regions to work it out between themselves and I didn't really edit them much - only enough to convey the idea.

I was mainly interested in building the retaining wall using a molding polyline rather than sorting the terrain out.

 Didn't I say this?

I agree, Terrain Break is a solid method to learn, a Terrain Retaining Wall is not. 

Just draw a Terrain Retaining wall perpendicular to the contours and have a look at the walls top - a mess that is almost impossible to use.

There is no problem getting a vertical cut when using a Terrain Break - you just need to place Elevation Lines parallel and close to the Terrain Break which define the top and bottom levels.

 

In the end it's whatever works best for you.

 

I agree with Glenn.  I have always used the the terrain break vs retaining wall.

[Rashid_Garuba]

Thanks guys.. Chief.. myriad ways to get what you want but the most efficient/least problematic is the goal.. Sometimes too many tools confuses... Like Golf.. a friend told me the other day he played better when he used one club only (I am NOT a golfer.. I thought a bagful was necessary).. Now he has a bagful his game is worse..

 

I used Rene's considering a deadline and the project simplicity but will play with this when I have time..

[Renerabbitt]

8 hours ago, dshall said:

I agree with Glenn.  I have always used the the terrain break vs retaining wall.

 

13 hours ago, glennw said:

Please don't be too critical of the model I posted.

Glenn no worries and no real combativeness on my end, you're a great guy and I have much respect for your work...I am also happy to hear new methods and work them until I succeed with them, especially if someone tells me its a good method...the bleed, as I referred to it, as is my observation and frustration with using terrain breaks when I want a crisp retaining wall. Your example of drawing a retaining wall perpendicular to an elevation line I think would be a problem for a terrain break as well, the elevation line needs to be cut and manipulated to properly convey the landscape. Neither tool is a bandaid that can fix an end-user not properly establishing his terrain me thinks

So how would one make a terrain retaining wall on a project such as this? I truly am unaware of the method..a terrain break and a fence?

this terrain was done very quickly and easily using retaining walls...At first thought it seems like it would be an immense chore to accomplish without the retaining wall tool. I don't see it, lack of knowledge on my part

See how the grass is a rolling hill but the pavement has less movement, it's more of a linear slope...that's one of the biggest challenges for another approach in my mind.

[glennw]

4 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

So how would one make a terrain retaining wall on a project such as this? I truly am unaware of the method..a terrain break and a fence?

 

Renee,

All I can do without the plan is generalise.

But I have said it many times before - a Terrain Retaining wall is a wall (a Foundation wall which gives you a footing) AND it also contains a Terrain Break.

So using a Terrain Break along with a normal wall gives you a similar result but with more flexibility and without the problems associated with the retaining wall - like the multiple top of wall breaks caused by the retaining wall trying to follow the terrain slope.

So...the approach I take is to get my terrain correct using the tools I mentioned (Elevation Regions, Elevation Lines and Terrain Breaks).

Once the terrain is modelled correctly, I add walls where needed and edit their top and bottom profiles (including steps and slopes) to suit the terrain.

 

In this pic, I deleted the Terrain Break and allowed Chief to build an almost vertical terrain by only using the upper and lower Elevation Regions.

[kylejmarsh]

Too bad we need these workarounds - would be great if Chief would update the Retaining Wall tool to make it more intuitive / less buggy

 

[Doug_N]

This has been a most informative thread, thank you Glenn, Scott and Rene.