brookesdesign

Window separation

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I have several windows 3" apart and I don't want them to join together.  When framing the wall I want two studs between each window.  Is there default setting somewhere where I can turn off the windows joining?  Right now when I frame the wall it frames the 3 windows and one big opening.

 

I'm fairly new to Chief so sorry if this is a simple question!

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, brookesdesign said:

I have several windows 3" apart and I don't want them to join together.  When framing the wall I want two studs between each window.  Is there default setting somewhere where I can turn off the windows joining?  Right now when I frame the wall it frames the 3 windows and one big opening.

 

I'm fairly new to Chief so sorry if this is a simple question!

 

 

 

 

Check you Plan Defaults>Window   there is a separation setting and you can also specify the Rough Opening spaces each side under Framing etc.

 

image.thumb.png.b337ee23cf13ee832d2e6fb820b30125.png

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 Thanks Kbird1.  I tried changing the separation and that doesn't stop the windows from joining.  I'm attaching images from the house I'm working on.  I want (2) 2x studs between the windows.  Its framing them as one large opening.

Window.jpg

WALL FRAMING.jpg

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16 minutes ago, brookesdesign said:

 Thanks Kbird1.  I tried changing the separation and that doesn't stop the windows from joining.  I'm attaching images from the house I'm working on.  I want (2) 2x studs between the windows.  Its framing them as one large opening.

Window.jpg

WALL FRAMING.jpg

 

Did you Mull the windows together ? if so uncheck the Option to treat the Opening as one Hole.....

 

otherwise post the Plan please, and at some point please do your Forum signature , in particular we need to know the Version of Chief you are using for many questions.

 

M.

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Chief does not want to put 2 studs between as that's not how it thinks framing should be.

 

How are you doing the header and framing below the windows?

 

It's easy enough to manually fix the framing.

 

 

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After accounting for your space between windows and your rough opening settings, Chief needs at least enough room to place a single king post or else the openings will mull together as one.  Just adjust the wall framing to your liking as Eric suggested.

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It is possible , just a PITA to Do.......

 

  1. Set Separation set to 4"   ( 2 studs plus 1/2" RO space each side)   (Plan Defaults>Window)
  2. Group select the 4 windows and open the DBX
  3. Turn off Trimmers (Cripples) under Framing             ( may not be needed? )
  4. Set Exterior and Interior Casing to less than 2" so they don't touch and cause the window to "join"   ( we fix it later )
  5. Build Wall Framing and check the  Auto Frame Walls box so you can see whats happening in Plan view
  6. Now Bump the 4 windows together gently ( too hard and fast they will pass thru each other ) it should be looking good now..
  7. check in a framing overview all is going as expected.
  8. If Colours etc are all ok at this point then In Plan view select all four windows and Mull together , while still selected change Casing to desired Sizes.
  9. check in a framing overview again that all is as expected
  10. Add extra King Studs etc manually as needed

 

Here's the Practice Plan.....4 Windows- Framed individually.plan

 

Mick.

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1 hour ago, Kbird1 said:

It is possible , just a PITA to Do.......

 

  1. Set Separation set to 4"   ( 2 studs plus 1/2" RO space each side)   (Plan Defaults>Window)
  2. Group select the 4 windows and open the DBX
  3. Turn off Trimmers (Cripples) under Framing             ( may not be needed? )
  4. Set Exterior and Interior Casing to less than 2" so they don't touch and cause the window to "join"   ( we fix it later )
  5. Build Wall Framing and check the  Auto Frame Walls box so you can see whats happening in Plan view
  6. Now Bump the 4 windows together gently ( too hard and fast they will pass thru each other ) it should be looking good now..
  7. check in a framing overview all is going as expected.
  8. If Colours etc are all ok at this point then In Plan view select all four windows and Mull together , while still selected change Casing to desired Sizes.
  9. check in a framing overview again that all is as expected
  10. Add extra King Studs etc manually as needed

 

Here's the Practice Plan.....4 Windows- Framed individually.plan

 

Mick.

 

Okay.  We’ve come up with some ill contrived workaround solutions but I think if we were holding a contest this one just might be the winner...or loser...not sure which.  

 

It seems like you improved upon the suggestion for manual framing modifications by adding  9 extra steps first.  That took guts my friend.  My hats off to you :)

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Set the Minimum Separation to what you want - and make sure it is large enough to accomodate the framing and Rough Opening size.

Either turn of casings or make sure they are small enough to fit the Minimum Separation size.

Set the Trimmer Count to zero - I think the thing that causes Chief the problems is it is trying to build both normal studs and trimmers as well in a confined space - so forget about the trimmers.

You should get you close to what you want.

These studs are 38mm wide with a 10mm Rough Opening (96mm).

I am not sure what your header or trimmer requirements are, but any minor changes can be made manually.

New Image_63.jpg

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Take away points I believe.

 

1) Casing size has an effect on framing. Specifically interior casing. Exterior casing does not matter.

Works the same with a Mulled Unit. Uncheck Single Wall Hole and remove (or make small) the interior casing and you get the 2 studs between the windows.

 

2) If using Minimum Separation, it needs to include the Rough Opening.

For a 1/2" rough opening and 2 1-1/2" studs, Minimum Separation would be 4".

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Eric,

You reminded me of the Single Wall Hole option.

If you mull the windows, uncheck Single Wall Hole and specify 2 trimmers, you get the same framing as I showed except that the casing displays are different.  

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4 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Okay.  We’ve come up with some ill contrived workaround solutions but I think if we were holding a contest this one just might be the winner...or loser...not sure which.  

 

It seems like you improved upon the suggestion for manual framing modifications by adding  9 extra steps first.  That took guts my friend.  My hats off to you :)

 

The OP is a Chief Beginner , who in all likelihood knows nothing about Manual framing...so I was just trying to help a newbie out,

 

and the 2 "Experts" below me suggest exactly what I did...

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11 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

 

The OP is a Chief Beginner , who in all likelihood knows nothing about Manual framing...so I was just trying to help a newbie out,

 

and the 2 "Experts" below me suggest exactly what I did...

 

To your point, do you really think offering a convoluted hack is better than just telling a new user how to manually modify the framing?  I have to say that I think that Glenn's solution is equally as bad, they all are still going to require manually modifying the framing because we all know that headers need trimmers and the question wasn't how to break up the header into multiple pieces or how to remove kingposts anyway, simply how to get the framing between the windows.  Sorry, I think you guys are way overcomplicating this one...especially for a new user.  Eric had it right to start with, it depends on the framing requirements, but just adjusting manually is the easiest and most accurate. 

 

By the way, on a side note, and most specifically for the OP; when we see things that we think should be behaving differently than they are, we should send in as a suggested improvement to Chief.  In this particular example though, I think Chief is actually doing the right thing since you would almost never want to break up the header or remove kingposts.  The alternatives are to either add some framing members between the sill and header, OR break up the sill and add framing between the bottom plate and header (with or without extra cripples).  Probably best to leave it up to the user no?

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It may look "convoluted" to you, as it is a bulleted list but in reality it is not, it's just the way I wrote it up as to be easy for a New User to Follow along.

 

As for it being a "Hack" ... it isn't, it's just what you have to do to "get her done" sometimes. Would it be easy to add a few studs etc manually probably, (definitely for an experienced User) Would you or I frame it that way OnSite no.... but then we have both been building for many years but my guess is 1/2 the people on the Forum have never picked up a 2x4, let alone made a Header.

 

Any Experienced Chief User knows that the Auto Framing is only likely to get you 75% of the way there, I certainly don't count on or use the Auto framing to tell me how it should be done, Headers are just one example of how CA doesn't Build things like we do ITRW , and in general I don't waste too much time on it as the Framer is going to do it HIS way anyway :).

 

That's all i'm gonna say about it ...tis not worth discussing further in my book.

 

M.

 

 

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Wow, thanks for all of the input.  I'm using X11 Beta so I probably can't post the plan.  I'll try all of the suggestions and see how they work.  I'm coming from 30 years of using autocad so its frustrating for something so simple to be so complex!  I'm loving Chief though and not having to manually draw elevations and sections is a huge time saver!

 

 

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11 minutes ago, brookesdesign said:

I'm using X11 Beta so I probably can't post the plan

 

Then you can ask questions in the Beta Forum too....

 

The version being used is why we like people to add it to their Forum Signature......sometimes it matters as things change every version

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On 1/23/2019 at 11:42 PM, solver said:

1) Casing size has an effect on framing. Specifically interior casing. Exterior casing does not matter.

 

That is insane.

 

I just spent an hour trying to remove unwanted, goofy-wide automatic exterior "trim" from a bank of windows, only to find this ^^ and learn that the wide interior casing that I need was causing the exterior shenanigans.

 

Now to remove the interior casing and add manual moldings. ARRGHHHH

 

Ah, the joys of Chief. Heading for the liquor cabinet..... BUT not before thanking you @solver for your presence here. I would've never figured that out.

 

EDIT: For posterity, this pic shows the problem of the unwanted exterior "trim":

1496106976_ScreenShot2019-08-19at7_36_50PM.thumb.png.9c17c8dcb3afd8e71cbff0da7ec6f680.png

 

This is the desired look, achieved by removing wide interior casing. Makes sense, right?

1346205222_ScreenShot2019-08-19at7_37_31PM.thumb.png.7abcf891c599e139519fc4aea4b67ba3.png

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Go to the plan defaults and under windows make minimum separation 3".
The bump next to each other, they should not mull automatically. I always dimension to the centerline of the windows, so if they do not work right (sometimes yes, sometimes no, which seems to be common in Chief) I just adjust the actual with the dimensions.  Pain in the rear, but thats the lay of the land.
As for the framing, I find it way easier and less time consuming to frame manually. For me, automatic framing in chief has always been more like automatic frustration.

I do use the automatic framing when making a 3d Framing Overview, but that is just a "suggestion" and it does give the layout a certain "wow" factor, but not much good for anything else.

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