Evolution Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 (issue is SOLVED!) I followed previous threads to model the screened in patio for my Grand daughter. The patio, columns and Roof are already existing. She wanted me to model what it would look like screened in before I actually finish it. My challenge (I have searched the forum and did find screened porch, cotton screen porch, and even one that I had responded to) but none address my particular challenge. I need to be able to build my walls between the existing columns since they will be an integral part of the screened patio and show it as it actually will look. I've tried several different approaches using room divider, railing, knee wall, and defined 4" siding wall made invisible, then tried visible but placing window openings set to screen etc., (I have not tried poly line solid yet) but even thought of (haven't tried it yet) just doing a framed wall defined 4" siding, then in the wall DBX remove all the routine materials and just leave framing....will that work?) The soft ware won't let me build walls between the columns either or at least so far I haven't been able too? Almost forgot, the screen wire frame at the top needs to follow the slope of the roof. Home 2.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Create screened walls adjacent to the porch walls (inside or outside) and set them as "No Room Definition". You should then be able to move them into position without effecting the columns. I don't know exactly how you've defined the columns/porch walls but I would assume you used railing walls "Post to Beam" with an "Open" railing. There is also the option of using "Panels" within that sort of railing wall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 20 minutes ago, solver said: What do you want it to look like? Lots of ways to screen in an existing space. Eric, I plan on framing in between the 6"X6" columns with 2X4 spaced 24" on center (to use 48" wide wire). I will put in a horizontal 2"X4" block about 36" from the patio surface between each stud. If she decides later to do siding on the lower portion the blocking will be there already. She wants at least one screen door in the wall opposite the door out of the angled wall (kitchen wall). I've attempted Joe's direction but if I don't build room divider walls to encompass the porch and patio I get no room definition and lose my slab. If I attempt the rail leaving the room divider in place then the rail walls will not connect past the divider walls. I've attempted it with 4" siding wall invisible and not invisible but of course the column don't show and it is more difficult to insert windows (converted to screen panels). I thought I may try PL solid and see if I can make that work? I can't get the walls on the end to follow the rake of the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I use a "railing wall" with "Panels". - The railing wall has a "beam"...in the picture it is 4" wide x 12" tall but you can specify any size you want...or none. I also used a bottom rail...in the picture it is 4" wide and 2" tall. I created my own rail panel symbols. I've attached a plan so you can see what I've done... If you make a bunch of rail panel symbols you can just drag them on to the wall and change them so you can see how different designs look. With wood panel on bottom.... With Arch at top and fully screened... Here is a vector view of pic above... Here is a sample plan... Screen Porch - Using Rail Walls 1.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Attached is a symbol plan...shows a basic screen panel. You can modify to your needs. Instructions for creating the symbol are in the plan. Easy-peasy! Screen Panel Symbol Plan.plan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 37 minutes ago, SNestor said: I use a "railing wall" with "Panels". - The railing wall has a "beam"...in the picture it is 4" wide x 12" tall but you can specify any size you want...or none. I also used a bottom rail...in the picture it is 4" wide and 2" tall. I created my own rail panel symbols. I've attached a plan so you can see what I've done... If you make a bunch of rail panel symbols you can just drag them on to the wall and change them so you can see how different designs look. With wood panel on bottom.... With Arch at top and fully screened... Here is a vector view of pic above... Here is a sample plan... Screen Porch - Using Rail Walls 1.plan Great work Steve, but it won't work for me! Don't know why. I even tried copying your screen wall and pasting it in. Looked really good, but in order to make it fit the floor plan, I had to take out the room divider walls that define the porch and patio. When I do that I lose my room definition and every thing that goes with it i.e. floor, ceiling etc. Placing a slab didn't work but I didn't take much time with it. I've been screwing with this all day. The other problem is getting it to follow the pitch of the shed roof. I think I'll put it up for the day and see what tomorrow may bring? (EDIT) I just saw your reply with the symbol. I'll take a look before I shut everything down for today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, SNestor said: Attached is a symbol plan...shows a basic screen panel. You can modify to your needs. Instructions for creating the symbol are in the plan. Easy-peasy! Screen Panel Symbol Plan.plan Steve, maybe easy peasy for you but I'm dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to converting symbols then trying to place it in my plan. ! I tried your instructions several different ways but after selecting tools/Symbol/Convert to Symbol the DBX opens, but I cannot rotate the symbol as in your instructions. I tried opening the panels DBX and rotating it on X axis it went screwey. I saved it and then attempt to place it in my plan and all it does is show up flat in the floor plan. I've had it for the day! Maybe tomorrow I'll work on converting my own PLS and see how that works out. At this point I can build her a sample to look at on her patio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 22 minutes ago, Evolution said: Great work Steve, but it won't work for me! Don't know why. I even tried copying your screen wall and pasting it in. Looked really good, but in order to make it fit the floor plan, I had to take out the room divider walls that define the porch and patio. When I do that I lose my room definition and every thing that goes with it i.e. floor, ceiling etc. Placing a slab didn't work but I didn't take much time with it. I've been screwing with this all day. The other problem is getting it to follow the pitch of the shed roof. I think I'll put it up for the day and see what tomorrow may bring? (EDIT) I just saw your reply with the symbol. I'll take a look before I shut everything down for today. Take a look at the attached...it's not perfect but it may help to lead you in the right direction. I didn't make it perfect...you may try using P-Solids to fill in the gaps between the roof and the rail panels. Screen Porch - Using Rail Walls 2 - With Patio.plan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Evolution said: Steve, maybe easy peasy for you but I'm dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to converting symbols then trying to place it in my plan. ! I tried your instructions several different ways but after selecting tools/Symbol/Convert to Symbol the DBX opens, but I cannot rotate the symbol as in your instructions. I tried opening the panels DBX and rotating it on X axis it went screwey. I saved it and then attempt to place it in my plan and all it does is show up flat in the floor plan. I've had it for the day! Maybe tomorrow I'll work on converting my own PLS and see how that works out. At this point I can build her a sample to look at on her patio I fell your pain! If I had some recording software I would do a video... Maybe one of our resident gurus will chime in... Have a great day...I'm on eastern daylight time...so, it's just about time for a cold brew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, SNestor said: Take a look at the attached...it's not perfect but it may help to lead you in the right direction. I didn't make it perfect...you may try using P-Solids to fill in the gaps between the roof and the rail panels. Screen Porch - Using Rail Walls 2 - With Patio.plan Looks good if I can figure out how to do the same thing. I've used P solids to make beams and other embellishments, so maybe I can figure this out too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 You might want to change the "Patio" to a "Porch" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, SNestor said: I fell your pain! If I had some recording software I would do a video... Maybe one of our resident gurus will chime in... Have a great day...I'm on eastern daylight time...so, it's just about time for a cold brew. Our resident gurus, like for us to do as much by ourselves as we can...……...I completely appreciate it. I'm trying not to let my frustrations prevent me from figuring it out. YOU are the best at sticking with us dummies! I actually had to model some pre engineered metal building parts for a job a few weeks back and they turned out pretty good. We'll see how this goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Evolution said: Looks good if I can figure out how to do the same thing. I've used P solids to make beams and other embellishments, so maybe I can figure this out too? If you make the "Patio" a "Porch" with "Railing Walls" you can get the model to work much better. PSolids are not the way to go. Note: A Porch has a floor, walls and a roof. That's a good place to start. Then edit the walls to get the screened in area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Joe_Carrick said: You might want to change the "Patio" to a "Porch" Joe, I tried that about 5 hours ago. I just need to do the PLS for my self. I have a plan from about 4 years ago of a lake house I did (Glenn Woodward helped me figure out the roof on it). I did a screened porch on it and didn't have one minutes problem (CA 6 or 7) but for the life of me I can't duplicate the process on this. Go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said: If you make the "Patio" a "Porch" with "Railing Walls" you can get the model to work much better. PSolids are not the way to go. Note: A Porch has a floor, walls and a roof. That's a good place to start. Then edit the walls to get the screened in area. I give up today! I tried it again but to no avail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNestor Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 19 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said: If you make the "Patio" a "Porch" with "Railing Walls" you can get the model to work much better. PSolids are not the way to go. Note: A Porch has a floor, walls and a roof. That's a good place to start. Then edit the walls to get the screened in area. Joe is 100% right...change Patio to Porch. Thanks Joe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 21 hours ago, SNestor said: Joe is 100% right...change Patio to Porch. Thanks Joe! Steve, I did that yesterday before I gave up, that didn't work? I had to put it away and get back on another job today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 On 8/8/2018 at 12:19 PM, Evolution said: Steve, I did that yesterday before I gave up, that didn't work? I had to put it away and get back on another job today. TS has confirmed that the Railing Walls will not work properly if the Ceiling is Sloped and we use a Post to Ceiling setting in the Railing Wall, Post to Beam may work as that causes the Attic wall to build on the gables but it won't be Screened but the normal siding instead. *** I am not sure if Steve's method works on Sloped Ceilings as his Video does not show that particular Case? I have another method ( Below ) but this is T.S. reply...... Thanks for contacting Technical Support. I tried several different methods to get this to work, but ultimately the issue is that the software does not have ability to cut the panels in the railing. So when we adjust the railing height to reach the roof line, the remainder will poke through the roof at the lower sections of it. While you could use the break wall tool to adjust multiple sections, the result then is that your center line is skewed with each section. Alternately, you could use a regular wall, and fill the area with windows altering the trim to create the look of your posts. Then the Glass can be painted with a Screen material as detailed in this article:https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00747/creating-a-screen-porch.html Framing Material Method. It is a similar method to my Board and Batten and RainScreen Libraries where you add extra Framing Layers (and the Mesh to a new Wall Definition) , I abandoned using Railing Walls for the Screened Porch and just make sure to have Framing Built and Turned on in ALL Views..... The Rail at 36" can be added via Wall Blocking at the desired Height using the Wall Detail Window. Seems to work fine for the most part with a bit of manual reframing eg at the Corners. Plan : MHD_Screened Porch - Framing Material Method.plan Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 On 8/8/2018 at 12:19 PM, Evolution said: Steve, I did that yesterday before I gave up, that didn't work? I had to put it away and get back on another job today. Yeah, I wonder what I am missing. I am not sure why changing the room type helps! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 On 8/7/2018 at 2:18 PM, Evolution said: I give up today! I tried it again but to no avail! The Framing Wall Method works in your Plan too ...once I built a MonoSlab Foundation for the House ...... I didn't finish it but here is the plan to take a look.... M. Home 2_MHD Screen Walls.plan . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 45 minutes ago, dshall said: Yeah, I wonder what I am missing. I am not sure why changing the room type helps! It's basically because his "Screened Porch" wasn't a room at all. It was just a slab with some posts and a roof plane. The reason it didn't work with the sloped walls was because the room height needed to be set at the baseline height of the roof plane. Then you get attic walls to enclose the sides from the area from there up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 13 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said: Then you get attic walls to enclose the sides from the area from there up. It is an existing Sloped Alum. Patio Cover Bob wants to enclose, so he can't use Attic walls , T.Support confirmed the Railing Walls/Panels will not follow a Sloped Ceiling , which was my experience playing with this too , so I Used the Framing Materials Method as shown above. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 On 8/10/2018 at 11:01 PM, Kbird1 said: The Framing Wall Method works in your Plan too ...once I built a MonoSlab Foundation for the House ...... I didn't finish it but here is the plan to take a look.... M. Home 2_MHD Screen Walls.plan . Mick, first chance to get to this, and this is what I was attempting to accomplish. Thanks to all for the help. How do I mark this as being the best answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Evolution said: Mick, first chance to get to this, and this is what I was attempting to accomplish. Thanks to all for the help. How do I mark this as being the best answer? Hi Bob , just be sure if you use My Method to Build Framing for each Wall AND Turn on Framing in ALL views or you won't see the Screened Walls. This Forum doesn't have a Solved Button AFAIK , just a Like Button on the Right side of a Post ( Heart in a Circle) , but what I have seen others do is Edit the 1st post and Add the Word [Solved] to the Thread Topic Heading and then add a link to the Best answer at the bottom of the 1st Post. If you right Click the Time and Date of the Best answer you can usually copy the Address/Link Location and then Paste it into the 1st Post eg: ( Or Copy and Paste this below) The Method that worked in this Situation : https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/19216-screened-in-patio/?do=findComment&comment=157957 You could also link to Steve's Video Tips Posts for doing Flat Ceiling "Rooms" here : https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/19253-video-lesson-screen-porches-railing-walls-and-panels/?tab=comments#comment-158022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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