rispgiu

Stem wall foundation

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I am working on a stem wall foundation home. I have very little experience in this, practically and book-wise. 

For example, where to place the pony walls? 

 

Can you guys give me any pointers? 

Thank you! 

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9 minutes ago, rispgiu said:

For example, where to place the pony walls? 

 

What pony walls?

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Solver thank you for replying. So far here is what I have. Am I completely wrong? 

Screen Shot 2018-05-22 at 10.13.58 PM.png

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I'm guessing the pony walls you refer to are the short wall segments on the framing plan?  Here in my area,  Pennsylvania,  stem wall foundations are the norm due to our frost depth.  Typically full basements in new homes, and crawlspaces are more common for additions.  Usually rather than wall segments, a continuous beam with support columns is the  way its done around here.  The most common around here is a steel I-beam with steel pipe columns.  Engineered lumber is also very common, typically LVL's or glue lams since that's what the suppliers here stock.  Judging by the notations it looks like you plan to use I-Joists?  Not sure how it works in your area, but around here the I-joist supplier will come up with the floor framing plan.  We submit floor plans to the lumberyard, and they forward them to the engineered lumber suppliers, whose staff engineers prepare the framing plan and framing package.  They will usually determine spacing, beams needed, rim board material, and also any hardware such as joist hangers that are needed, and provide an engineer stamped framing plan for building permit submission.  

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6 hours ago, dscaddoo said:

I'm guessing the pony walls you refer to are the short wall segments on the framing plan?  Here in my area,  Pennsylvania,  stem wall foundations are the norm due to our frost depth.  Typically full basements in new homes, and crawlspaces are more common for additions.  Usually rather than wall segments, a continuous beam with support columns is the  way its done around here.  The most common around here is a steel I-beam with steel pipe columns.  Engineered lumber is also very common, typically LVL's or glue lams since that's what the suppliers here stock.  Judging by the notations it looks like you plan to use I-Joists?  Not sure how it works in your area, but around here the I-joist supplier will come up with the floor framing plan.  We submit floor plans to the lumberyard, and they forward them to the engineered lumber suppliers, whose staff engineers prepare the framing plan and framing package.  They will usually determine spacing, beams needed, rim board material, and also any hardware such as joist hangers that are needed, and provide an engineer stamped framing plan for building permit submission.  

Yes, I called them pony wall simply because they are short and because of my ignorance on this subject :) . In the next month I am moving from Texas to Oregon and everything seems to be different there. Here in Texas I would have never built a foundation on my own and anything structural I would have consulted an engineer and I would have needed to get their stamp of approval before building. I am being told that in Oregon is different. That I do not need an engineer because the city doesn't require one and that generally whoever drafts the plans drafts the foundation. It might be different once I get up there but I was trying to gain some more knowledge given I know very very little on the subject of foundations. 

 

Thank you very much for the info you've provided. 

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5 minutes ago, rispgiu said:

Yes, I called them pony wall simply because they are short and because of my ignorance on this subject :) . In the next month I am moving from Texas to Oregon and everything seems to be different there. Here in Texas I would have never built a foundation on my own and anything structural I would have consulted an engineer and I would have needed to get their stamp of approval before building. I am being told that in Oregon is different. That I do not need an engineer because the city doesn't require one and that generally whoever drafts the plans drafts the foundation. It might be different once I get up there but I was trying to gain some more knowledge given I know very very little on the subject of foundations. 

 

Thank you very much for the info you've provided. 

 

I think it would be advisable to still have these plans reviewed and stamped by an Engineer. Otherwise you will be assuming all liability should something go wrong.

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2 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

I think it would be advisable to still have these plans reviewed and stamped by an Engineer. Otherwise you will be assuming all liability should something go wrong.

Thank Graham, I was considering the same thing and I appreciate you confirming it. The one advantage about the plans I am drafting and plan to build is that each house will be built about 5-7 times per neighborhood, so paying to have a peace of mind I think it is well worth it. 

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4 minutes ago, rispgiu said:

Thank Graham, I was considering the same thing and I appreciate you confirming it. The one advantage about the plans I am drafting and plan to build is that each house will be built about 5-7 times per neighborhood, so paying to have a peace of mind I think it is well worth it. 

 

Absolutely - Even if you decided to take the risk the other issue would be if your business liability insurance would cover you. I know with mine it is very restrictive as to what activities I can be involved in. If I'm involved in something that I am not considered to be professionally designated in then they would consider that to be negligence on my part and as such I'm not covered. Even more important if you are working in a more commercial capacity such as a mass builder, when something goes wrong they are going to come at you with all guns blazing. Had such a situation back about 20 years ago, even though I was not at fault the GC filed suits against everyone who had stepped foot on the project.

 

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2 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

Absolutely - Even if you decided to take the risk the other issue would be if your business liability insurance would cover you. I know with mine it is very restrictive as to what activities I can be involved in. If I'm involved in something that I am not considered to be professionally designated in then they would consider that to be negligence on my part and as such I'm not covered. Even more important if you are working in a more commercial capacity such as a mass builder, when something goes wrong they are going to come at you with all guns blazing. Had such a situation back about 20 years ago, even though I was not at fault the GC filed suits against everyone who had stepped foot on the project.

 

Thank you for your insight, it truly helps. 

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I am not all that knowledgeable about OR building codes and plan requirements but suspect that you may be dealing with seismic requirements for most areas on the west side of the state.  If so, a structural engineer's stamp might be required.  Should be easy to find that out.

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When I move to a new location, the first thing I do is find an Engineer that does residential work and book an appointment.  Some will even sit down with you for a free consultation to discuss local requirements.  If they charge you, it is money well spent.  They have given me great advice and sample drawing to get me going in the right direction.

Another option would be talking to local foundation companies but I find the Engineers are the best.

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9 hours ago, CJSpud said:

I am not all that knowledgeable about OR building codes and plan requirements but suspect that you may be dealing with seismic requirements for most areas on the west side of the state.  If so, a structural engineer's stamp might be required.  Should be easy to find that out.

Thank you Curt, I was told by a few builders and city officials a stamp from an engineer is not required. I was very surprised as well and it seems that a lot of these guys are just taking all the responsibility upon themselves. 

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9 hours ago, country said:

When I move to a new location, the first thing I do is find an Engineer that does residential work and book an appointment.  Some will even sit down with you for a free consultation to discuss local requirements.  If they charge you, it is money well spent.  They have given me great advice and sample drawing to get me going in the right direction.

Another option would be talking to local foundation companies but I find the Engineers are the best.

Thank you, thats a great suggestion. 

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This is just a very basic answer and I'm not sure if I'm fully understanding your question or not, but those pony walls are typically just built to do one of 2 things...

  1. Provide mid-span support for floor joists or floor beams
  2. Support bearing walls or posts/beams above

The pony walls as you have them don't make a whole lot of sense to me but I also don't know what the house above looks like.

 

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Just now, Alaskan_Son said:

This is just a very basic answer and I'm not sure if I'm fully understanding your question or not, but those pony walls are typically just built to do one of 2 things...

  1. Provide mid-span support for floor joists or floor beams
  2. Support bearing walls or posts/beams above

The pony walls as you have them don't make a whole lot of sense to me but I also don't know what the house above looks like.

 

Thank you Michael, I am attaching the PDF file I have so far as a mock up fo the city. I put the pony walls there thinking the I Joist would need additional support, but I did not really know the criteria to those and I placed them somewhat at random. 

Any insight would be helpful :) 

If you think it would be helpful I could attach the plan as well. 

 

Monte mock up .pdf

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All good advice.  Consulting with an engineer local to the area you'll be building would be money well spent for peace of mind.  Also a meeting with the building official/inspector of the town would be good as well.  Every state and town has their own regulations.  Here in PA we go by what they call the Uniform Construction Code, which is basically just state wide adoption of the ICC codes (IRC, IBC, etc.)  Currently we are going by the 2009 editions, with a few amendments.  Each municipality then may have a few of their own amendments, but it isn't usually drastically different.  I am a remodeling contractor, not an architect or design professional, so the design I do is limited to only projects I build for my customers, which are mostly finished basements, additions, kitchens and other interior alterations. We don't deal with seismic or high wind here, so there isn't anything drastic needed structurally.  The worst we have is snow loads to deal with, and each town has their design load requirements for that.  For the residential work I do typically the home owner or contractor is allowed to prepare plans, and if the design follows the prescriptive methods in the code,  then an engineer isn't needed at all. Typically  structural engineers are only needed for use of steel beams or things way outside of the norm.  Engineered lumber beams, and I joist floor and roof systems are designed by the engineers at the suppliers of those.  Roof and floor trusses is similar, that the engineers of the truss fabricator design and prepare the framing plans for those.  Commercial work is a different story.  Just about everything commercial must be designed by an architect or engineer, and structural and mechanical systems are designed by engineers of the appropriate disciplines. 

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4 minutes ago, dscaddoo said:

All good advice.  Consulting with an engineer local to the area you'll be building would be money well spent for peace of mind.  Also a meeting with the building official/inspector of the town would be good as well.  Every state and town has their own regulations.  Here in PA we go by what they call the Uniform Construction Code, which is basically just state wide adoption of the ICC codes (IRC, IBC, etc.)  Currently we are going by the 2009 editions, with a few amendments.  Each municipality then may have a few of their own amendments, but it isn't usually drastically different.  I am a remodeling contractor, not an architect or design professional, so the design I do is limited to only projects I build for my customers, which are mostly finished basements, additions, kitchens and other interior alterations. We don't deal with seismic or high wind here, so there isn't anything drastic needed structurally.  The worst we have is snow loads to deal with, and each town has their design load requirements for that.  For the residential work I do typically the home owner or contractor is allowed to prepare plans, and if the design follows the prescriptive methods in the code,  then an engineer isn't needed at all. Typically  structural engineers are only needed for use of steel beams or things way outside of the norm.  Engineered lumber beams, and I joist floor and roof systems are designed by the engineers at the suppliers of those.  Roof and floor trusses is similar, that the engineers of the truss fabricator design and prepare the framing plans for those.  Commercial work is a different story.  Just about everything commercial must be designed by an architect or engineer, and structural and mechanical systems are designed by engineers of the appropriate disciplines. 

thank you for your advice. 

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I didn't study the plan in great deal, but if it was me, my pony walls would almost certainly look more like this...

5b060d1518fa8_Pic1.thumb.jpg.79b81c61d4be09f4b83a6f4d3da7ac0c.jpg

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Just now, Alaskan_Son said:

I didn't study the plan in great deal, but if it was me, my pony walls would almost certainly look more like this...

5b060d1518fa8_Pic1.thumb.jpg.79b81c61d4be09f4b83a6f4d3da7ac0c.jpg

Thank you Michael. No need to space the pony walls out?  What I mean is adding a break in between them? 

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ScarlettBelle

3 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:
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This is also how I would imagine it being done.  Around here it would probably be LVL beams with support posts 8' on center or so, but there are many ways to reach a code approved solution. 

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Is there are math applied for the distance?, a code specification? 

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6 minutes ago, rispgiu said:

Is there are math applied for the distance?, a code specification? 

 

For your particular plan, there are basically 2 main criteria I would look at...

 

1.  The joist span.  The code requirement for joist spans is just based on deflection and is something you get from the joists manufacturer, but I typically try to keep most 9-1/2" joists down to about 14' spans or less.

 

2.  Whether or not the trusses are free spanning.  99% of the trusses we use ARE free spanning (no interior bearing locations) and if that is the case, there's no need to worry about the pony walls supporting the trusses.  If the trusses require mid span supports than you may need to locate those mony walls directly underneath some of the wall above.  In the case of your plan though, it looks like the 2 locations where I put the only walls would likely be the only place they would need to be located in order to bear the trusses and walls above anyway.

 

With regard to the spacing between walls.  It really kinda depends on the plan.  I see no reason to place breaks in that plan.  I just MIGHT frame little "doorways" (openings with headers) at a couple locations just to make ity easier to traverse the crawlspace.  Not really a necessity though. 

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For regular dimensional lumber its is all in the IRC. There are span tables for floor joists, and also for girders (beams).  Foundations are chapter 4, and floor structure is chapter 5.  It can be viewed online for free here, just pick your state on the map and it will link you to the applicable codes to search.        

 

https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/

 

I joists and LVL's are a different story though.  Those are usually speced by the supplier or manufacturer.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

For your particular plan, there are basically 2 main criteria I would look at...

 

1.  The joist span.  The code requirement for joist spans is just based on deflection and is something you get from the joists manufacturer, but I typically try to keep most 9-1/2" joists down to about 14' spans or less.

 

2.  Whether or not the trusses are free spanning.  99% of the trusses we use ARE free spanning (no interior bearing locations) and if that is the case, there's no need to worry about the pony walls supporting the trusses.  If the trusses require mid span supports than you may need to locate those mony walls directly underneath some of the wall above.  In the case of your plan though, it looks like the 2 locations where I put the only walls would likely be the only place they would need to be located in order to bear the trusses and walls above anyway.

 

With regard to the spacing between walls.  It really kinda depends on the plan.  I see no reason to place breaks in that plan.  I just MIGHT frame little "doorways" (openings with headers) at a couple locations just to make ity easier to traverse the crawlspace.  Not really a necessity though. 

Thank you very much, this helps a lot. 

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If you plan to use insulation in the floor joists, you might want to use 11 7/8" joists so the insulation will fit.

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