builtright3

Ram Memory

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I currently have 16 GB ram memory in my computer and was going to upgrade to 32.

Can anyone tell me if this could make a significant difference when I'm working with 3D renderings if the rest of my computer hardware is sufficient?

 

 

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Joey:

 

ray tracing uses cpu ram - so I think the more the merrier

 

renders use GPU ram - so the more ram on a good gaming video card - the better

 

beyond that I have no advice

 

Lew

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I didn't get a gaming card on my new laptop but I believe my video card is good. I noticed my CPU will max out for a couple of seconds when I make a change in the 3D view and so it needs a little time to gather itself and its really frustrating me when I'm on a designing roll. Even though the ram doesn't seem to be maxing out I was told it could still make a pretty big difference if I install more ram. I want to give it a chance before I take back and exchange it for something else because I really like this computer in every other way.

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9 minutes ago, builtright3 said:

Even though the ram doesn't seem to be maxing out I was told it could still make a pretty big difference if I install more ram.

 

By all means, give it a shot, but if you'e not maxing out your RAM, I honestly can't see any way that more RAM is going to help with anything at all.  I'm curious.  Who told you that? 

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I know a guy that owns a computer store here in California and he sells a lot of these "Think Pad" computers. He does so because the demand for them are high for his professional customers that need good working durable portable systems. Most of them purchase these for their CAD programs and have been very happy with them. Jim (the owner) told me that he hasn't had any complaints but he did say that just about every computer he sells they ask to upgrade the ram right off the bat. Most b people will tell you that you should have a minimum of 32 GB of ram if your running any type of graphics (at least that's what I always seem to hear). Jim told me to try it and If it doesn't work then he will take the computer back no problem. I have known him for about 15 years now and he is a very fair and honest guy.

He suggested this computer because gaming laptop are not a very good option for the following reasons:

These machines cost some serious money. They aren’t cheap at all. You could purchase a gaming desktop and a very good laptop for the same price as just one gaming laptop. You are really cutting out many options by investing this kind of money in hardware like this.

The weight of it is a huge problem. While you might think it’s portable because it’s a laptop, it really isn’t that portable. It will be too heavy to carry around all day. Additionally, you will need a gaming mouse to go along with it which adds to the weight and makes it more complicated.

The battery life of these machines are fairly worthless since it’s running high power hardware. You will be stuck near a plug if you want to do anything more than an hour of gaming. This really defeats the purpose of using a laptop. Most people purchase laptops so that they can be portable.

There is a huge risk with these laptops. The parts on them tend to go bad quickly. You will have to service the whole computer versus repairing a part or two yourself like on a desktop. This will also up the cost of owning this type of computer over the long haul.

You can’t upgrade that easily. As a gamer you know it’s best to have frequent upgrades. A gaming laptop will become old much faster than a desktop that you can upgrade. Most gaming computer laptops have most of the upgrades already installed when you purchase if you are serious about gaming. This limits future upgrades which would require you to purchase a new model in order to upgrade.

Heat will make it uncomfortable to use and eventually kill your hardware. There is a limited life span with these devices compared to a desktop that can deal with heat better while playing games.

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What you have is a good business laptop. Good for someone using spreadsheets and word. Your Quadro graphics card is OK for 2D work, less so for 3D.

 

Why a laptop?

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Does the VideoCard have 2GB Ram or 4GB or ?  4Gb is recommend but I think it is now the new Minimum with x10 , even on my 8GB 1070Ti it is not instantaneous since the CPU still has to do it thing and Cores Count there if RCSS are on.......

 

Video Ram is taking a Big hit with the New PBR Views , I think Graham said 1.5 GB per window in the Lets PBR Thread.... page 9 maybe?

 

It may not be cheap to upgrade the Ram especially if it only has two slots and both are already full. DDR4 is expensive right now....

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1 hour ago, builtright3 said:

He suggested this computer because gaming laptop are not a very good option for the following reasons:

I've been working on laptops exclusively for a decade, they suit me and my business. My experience doesn't match what your friend says, except for battery life. (more performance = less battery life).  Main point being that Chief works better on gaming machines than workstations; just see what folks on this board use. (I've had both)

 

To your question- I have 32GB ram on the current Sager and it never gets close to being used. I doubt you would notice a thing upgrading that on your machine.

 

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I'm sorry Joey, but I think you may have been given bad advice.  It may be that your guy's experience is working against him.  A lot of other CAD/CAM software works great in a workstation environment but Chief thrives on gaming systems.  I do agree that you're better off investing in a PC than a laptop, but if I had to choose between your laptop and a gaming laptop for Chief, I'd pick the gaming system 10 times out of 10.

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28 minutes ago, MarkMc said:

I've been working on laptops exclusively for a decade, they suit me and my business. My experience doesn't match what your friend says, except for battery life. (more performance = less battery life).  Main point being that Chief works better on gaming machines than workstations; just see what folks on this board use. (I've had both)

 

To your question- I have 32GB ram on the current Sager and it never gets close to being used. I doubt you would notice a thing upgrading that on your machine.

 

 

I cant tell from your description of your computer. Is it a gaming computer?

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6 minutes ago, builtright3 said:

I cant tell from your description of your computer. Is it a gaming computer?

 

Both my PC and my laptop are gaming systems. 

 

By the way, in his defense, as I read through you guy's advice, it doesn't actually sound like he's advising against a gaming machine...

 

2 hours ago, builtright3 said:

You could purchase a gaming desktop and a very good laptop for the same price as just one gaming laptop.

 

It seems like he was just encouraging a desktop over a gaming laptop.  It just sounds like he thinks you're better off having a mediocre laptop AND a good desktop rather than a really good laptop...which I definitely agree with.

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1 minute ago, builtright3 said:

 

I cant tell from your description of your computer. Is it a gaming computer?

Yes-Sager/Clevo are gaming machines- the GTX980m (or any GTX card) 

As to laptop vs desktop it depends on needs -being completely mobile makes me money...and to a lesser extent personal preference-I prefer not be fussing with clouds and transferring files or settings. I pay a little more, though not as much as it once was, and give up a little (only a little) in upgrade ability.

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5 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I'm sorry Joey, but I think you may have been given bad advice.  It may be that your guy's experience is working against him.  A lot of other CAD/CAM software works great in a workstation environment but Chief thrives on gaming systems.  I do agree that you're better off investing in a PC than a laptop, but if I had to choose between your laptop and a gaming laptop for Chief, I'd pick the gaming system 10 times out of 10.

 

I really appreciate the input. I think Jim was just trying to help but I do believe that it was bad advice because I went in willing to spend the big bucks and specifically asked about the gaming system and he really thought that I didn't need it. The good thing is that he is willing to give me my money back so I can get something else.

I like working on Laptops because for one thing I'm use to it and the more important thing is I travel a lot so I like to always be mobile.

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3 minutes ago, MarkMc said:

Yes-Sager/Clevo are gaming machines- the GTX980m (or any GTX card) 

As to laptop vs desktop it depends on needs -being completely mobile makes me money...and to a lesser extent personal preference-I prefer not be fussing with clouds and transferring files or settings. I pay a little more, though not as much as it once was, and give up a little (only a little) in upgrade ability.

 

Do you mind me asking what you  paid for your laptop?

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43 minutes ago, builtright3 said:

 

Do you mind me asking what you  paid for your laptop?

 

Mark will give you a good deal , he wants to buy a new one :) 

 

unless you have really good eyes I would avoid a 4K screen ...at least that is my experience.....stuff is way too small or you have to scale Win10 400% or something.....  FHD or QHD res. should keep the price down too... (somewhat gaming laptops aren't cheap.)

 

 

M.

 

 

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I really like the feel of this Leovo and the reviews are good from what I've seen.

Check this oneLaptop.thumb.PNG.c3506a894308b6343147b4f5b5f377a1.PNG

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CA highly recommends a good gaming video card for running Chief

 

Lew

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35 minutes ago, builtright3 said:

I really like the feel of this Leovo and the reviews are good from what I've seen.

Check this oneLaptop.thumb.PNG.c3506a894308b6343147b4f5b5f377a1.PNG

 

the Y520 and the Y720 are both computers I looked at myself and the Pricing wasn't bad but I found reviews say the Screen was lacking especially in Colour output but Scott Harris and Johnny got the Y520 with the 1050ti and say it works great ....

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/17026-macbook-pro-or-dell-precision-laptop/?do=findComment&comment=143216

 

Being the Laptop is not my main Computer I decided to try the same specs as above since my Surface3 os no longer a viable Option for x10. I have ordered a Acer Nitro 5 AN515-51-76YG

15.6" Laptop (i7-7700HQ, 16GB DDR4, 256GB SSD, Windows 10 Home) 

as reviews seemed better screen wise, and it is on sale at the moment ( end of line I suspect)

 

if it was my only computer I would spend more for a better VideoCard  eg the 1060 or 1070

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Nitro-5-7700HQ-GTX-1050-Ti-Laptop-Review.251846.0.html

 

The Acer Helios 300  also gets good reviews .

 

I saw Microsoft had a Pi Day Sale this week , 30% off ...might be worth checking them out , I have had good luck buy from them direct as far as "After Care" Service goes....

 

But then again I guess the Guy you got that system from will likely bring the new one in for you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

the Y520 and the Y720 are both computers I looked at myself and the Pricing wasn't bad but I found reviews say the Screen was lacking especially in Colour output but Scott Harris and Johnny got the Y520 with the 1050ti and say it works great ....

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/17026-macbook-pro-or-dell-precision-laptop/?do=findComment&comment=143216

 

Being the Laptop is not my main Computer I decided to try the same specs as above since my Surface3 os no longer a viable Option for x10. I have ordered a Acer Nitro 5 AN515-51-76YG

15.6" Laptop (i7-7700HQ, 16GB DDR4, 256GB SSD, Windows 10 Home) 

as reviews seemed better screen wise, and it is on sale at the moment ( end of line I suspect)

 

if it was my only computer I would spend more for a better VideoCard  eg the 1060 or 1070

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Nitro-5-7700HQ-GTX-1050-Ti-Laptop-Review.251846.0.html

 

The Acer Helios 300  also gets good reviews .

 

I saw Microsoft had a Pi Day Sale this week , 30% off ...might be worth checking them out , I have had good luck buy from them direct as far as "After Care" Service goes....

 

But then again I guess the Guy you got that system from will likely bring the new one in for you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is all really good information!

I will bring all of what I learned and go to Jim with it on Monday so I can figure out what I want to do. Its not about the good deal for me at this point its about having a system that is right for me because its my livelihood. No price for that! I just need to get my work done and not sit and look at the dreaded hour glass or the spinning circle!!! LOL

 

Thank You!!!

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1 hour ago, builtright3 said:

 

Do you mind me asking what you  paid for your laptop?

$3k note the desktop CPU. If I were getting a machine today I'd get a Clevo with 8700k/gtx1070, 16gb, 960pro,  at HIDevolution.

 

Just helped a client configure a Sager from Xoticpc  with 7700hq and gtx 1070 for $2k

 

Agree about not getting 4k screens at on screens under 27 maybe 24. 

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8 hours ago, MarkMc said:

$3k note the desktop CPU. If I were getting a machine today I'd get a Clevo with 8700k/gtx1070, 16gb, 960pro,  at HIDevolution.

 

Just helped a client configure a Sager from Xoticpc  with 7700hq and gtx 1070 for $2k

 

Agree about not getting 4k screens at on screens under 27 maybe 24. 

 

Thanks for the info! I really appreciate it.

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Thought I'd add some of the what and why I look for in a laptop for full time use.

  • Desktop processor avoids having Optimus. While you can, and should, make sure that Chief is using the dedicated GPU I've found that Optimus can be an issue when used with multiple monitors since those use the Intel card. How much of an issue depends on what ports you are connecting the monitors to.
  • K series CPUs- I don't overclock. They always have a slightly higher clock speed. Graham says that single core clock is important; when checking mine it does use all the cores though not equally. (Opening a PBR w/ 580k surfaces of a 27MB plan hits 40% on mine, higher if I have more open. I've seen it spike to 100 briefly at times.) I've seen mention that the K processors are nothing more than a higher quality of the same processor and have better cooling. I don't know if that is so or not, but I've never had this machine throttle.
  • Heat management-check the brand, check the specific machine, and the components if customizing. It's pointless to get a machine that throttles for steady day to day use.
  • GPU- of the current ones I lean towards the 1070, best balance of price to perfomance, less heat issues than the 1080 from what I've read
  • C drive- the fastest PCIE I can find, might or might not get Raid again. It does appear to help a little but newer SSDs are faster (Samsung 960 Pro) I'm fine with 500 GB. I've got 360 free with lots of programs including 3 versions of Chief, TuborCad, Envisioneer, 4 photo programs....
  • Up-gradeable. Every time I've looked into actually upgrading a laptop it has not been worth it. BUT being up-gradeable also means that those parts are serviceable in case of failure.
  • Storage drive-I just get a 7200 HDD. I've tested storing non program files on both types of drives-zero difference.
  • Ports- I want the most comprehensive selection of ports I can get. Both to future proof and for backwards compatibility of peripherals. I insist on have Display Ports over just HDMI since I've found they perform better on my external monitors. Don't have any USB3.1 or Thunderbolt montiors yet so can't say (but I have both ports)
  • Keyboard - you are going to live with it as long as you own the machine and can be a weak spot. Sure I also sometimes use wireless, number pad, and keyboard (and always a wireless trackball, hate trackpads) but use the built in keyboard 90% of the time. I want a full keyboard with a dedicated number pad, function keys, good response, solid quality. Backlit is nice if you have lousy sleep patterns. The only way to sort these (and screens) is IRL or checking multiple reviews. I favor user reviews.
  • Screen- same goes for this, it's for life- as noted earlier I wouldn't bother with 4K but I may take a look at 1440 next time. Use the higher res for larger external monitors. I always get just the 30 day pixel guarantee, cheap enough.
  • Wireless card- I always get the best Intel card available. Over the years I've found the Intel cards to be problem free, not so much others. My machine also came with a Killer card for LAN where it wins.
  • Power- always an extra power brick to keep in the car. Really sucks forgetting it if a meeting goes too long. I don't bother with extra batteries any longer.
  • Brand/vendor/OS/misc- reliable build, zero bloatware (I don't want to spend a couple of hours cleaning things up), good vendor support, customizable. (note that the weak point on Sagers is limited BIOS updates which has never been and issue for me, but is one reason I'd be looking to HIDevolution if getting another desktop CPU). Windows pro (I'm a PC) lets me control updates (about to try installing GPEDIT on the HP so may not need it.) Sound- I have external speakers and when I've got golf on the TV (wireless adapter) the sound comes from that. Docking stations- I don't care; I only plug in 3 cables, nice little ritual.

All that in a current laptop can be right about $3k, same as what I paid 2 years ago. All the machines before that were $2k or slightly less.

Currently there is no reason for me to upgrade, not enough improvement and some things are actually a step back. I don't expect to be upgrading until at least after X11, maybe 12. I check desktops every now and then. Price for what I'd want always come out very close. The advantage is you can keep reusing monitors and keyboards to save a little and if you really want to go to town can get even more juice (I've configured some that would really hurt). The other thing to consider is the price of a good desktop combined with a mediocre laptop. A Mac with the same stuff, if even available, would be a good bit more but some folks really like em.

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Nice Write Up Mark .....

 

More Of Mark's Laptops Posts for Others in this Thread over in the Chatroom....

 

 

 

P.S. Joey perhaps you could change your Thread Title to include Laptop Advice , ot the Tags , so Others find it in the Future...just Edit the OP to do that.

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On 3/16/2018 at 10:47 PM, Kbird1 said:

Being the Laptop is not my main Computer I decided to try the same specs as above since my Surface3 os no longer a viable Option for x10. I have ordered a Acer Nitro 5 AN515-51-76YG

15.6" Laptop (i7-7700HQ, 16GB DDR4, 256GB SSD, Windows 10 Home) 

as reviews seemed better screen wise, and it is on sale at the moment ( end of line I suspect)

 

Just a quick follow up , x10 is running fine on my Acer Laptop ( above )  1050ti that arrived a few days ago , and I think it will be a great secondary machine , for when working out of town or wanting to show Client's something on Site / at meetings , but if it was my main computer I would want something with more oomph.... and a 1060 or 1070 videocard , though it is not the Card (1050ti) I think that is the slight slowness , but my Desktop is 6 core ,32gb ram so fairly high spec, so I am used to stuff happening "now" not 1-2 secs from "now" , certainly PBR doesn't seem any different on the laptop to the desktop as far as moving the camera etc using the Nvidia Card.  ( the Intel Card crashes PBR currently)

 

M.

 

 

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