Pricing for Rendering

[pgjacob]

Hi All

I was wondering about your thoughts on pricing for rendering services.  I am just starting out and doing some pro bono work to build up my portfolio.  For one of my clients I provided what I WOULD have charged him, and I based this, maybe naively, on $/sq. foot of project, complexity of structure, inside/outside or both.  Again, this work was free for this guy.  Once he saw the price tag, he said no one would pay that.  Essentially I charged 25 cents/sq foot (simple structure, only exterior, duplex townhome so half of sq foot is easily replicated, simple terrain) + $500 for unlimited testing/views for 30 days.  It was about $2300 for two 3600 sq. ft. duplex townhomes (7200 sq. ft.).  I helped with exterior color selections by providing him with different renderings side by side.  So part of this exercise was me testing the waters to see what was a fair and reasonable price.  The client said I should google renderings and see, and he said $500 or so should be enough.  I did see that some firms charge $500/image.  So I guess if I provided 12 images, that would be $6000...I have seen some websites that say about 1-2% of the construction costs for rendering services.  In designing our home, we reached out to a company to do some renderings and the estimate was $3000+ for 5 images.  Then I upgraded to CA vs. Home Designer and said I could to it myself...

 

I know alot of this is subjective.  But I have to start somewhere with concrete data and sq. footage seemed to be where to start.  

 

Thanks

melissa

 

[TheKitchenAbode]

Developing a pricing strategy involves a number of factors.

 

1.) Competitors.

2.) Your target market.

3.) Your level of expertise/skill.

4.) Your rendering level of quality.

5.) Your level of productivity, time spent.

 

There are many possible combinations in the above that will affect/determine what you can charge, or maybe better said what a potential client would be willing to pay. The client you worked for indicated that your desired pricing was too high and when you yourself were considering an outside rendering service you also came to the same conclusion about their cost. Did you discuss with your client as to why they thought your price was too high? Is that customer representative of the type of customer you are intending to target? Was your pricing estimation just based on what you believe others are charging or did you derive it based on the value of your time, skill and profit margin needs?

 

There are two distinctly different approaches.

 

1.) This is what clients are willing to pay and as such how do I deliver a similar service at that price and make money.

 

Or

 

2.) This is the service I offer and this is the price I need to make money and as such how and who do I sell this to.

[Renerabbitt]

3 hours ago, pgjacob said:

Hi All

 

Thanks

melissa

 

 

Melissa, 

Tagging on to what Graham said above, LOD(Level of Detail) is a huge part of this. I typically offer 3 levels for exterior work: stock Chied 3d views for conceptual, Thea render views for color picking and geo-location based environment lighting, and a 3rd level thats all of the bells and whistles with landscaping etc.

Interior LOD includes bare rooms, stock entourage, or custom entourage.

I charge $1k to produce as-builts which include true wall dimensions, footing/foundation details and roof framing etc.(A complete home...which is rarely ever needed to produce plansets.)

The following home I charged $6k to produce from lines on paper to a fully realized home:

this included custom modelling and furniture importing/creating

final package was about 12 images and a PDF of the bare floor plan for furniture layout.

The background image is the actual view of the back property.

all of the colors are sampled from their respective vendors, and textures had to be created to match existing floor and cabinet finishes.

Faucets were created to match existing as well as some plants were created.

This particular job was rushed, so a lot of post processing had to be done instead of doing the work in the modelling program, which brings up mistakes.(like some of the fireflies you see and joinery not being perfect. or plants looking incorrect.)

I never provide rendering quotes based on sq.ft. the variables are too many. I have to bid the job based on my experience of how long it takes me to work a scene.

hope this helps

 

[TheKitchenAbode]

Rene - Absolutely Stunning Work!

 

That's worth more than $6,000. I hope the client appreciated the skill/expertise and time you put into that.

[Kbird1]

Nice Work Rene.... I guess that is Thea or Lumion though ? 

 

M.

 

 

[pgjacob]

Thanks to all for replies.  I agree, very nice renders.  Just shows I still have lots to learn.  I have now begun looking into post-CA rendering techniques and am baffled.  Thea was mentioned, I downloaded the KerkyThea.  I understand there will be a learning curve.  But this seemed a little clunky.  Thea Render has different versions.  Which to use? 

 

 

[Kbird1]

For some more Ideas look at Jintu's Site , he does nice work , has done for many years ....

 

http://www.jintudesigns.com/bathroom-kitchen-renderings.html

 

and his Pricing Sheet...

http://www.jintudesigns.com/3d-rendering-prices.html

 

 

 

M.

[Renerabbitt]

36 minutes ago, pgjacob said:

Thanks to all for replies.  I agree, very nice renders.  Just shows I still have lots to learn.  I have now begun looking into post-CA rendering techniques and am baffled.  Thea was mentioned, I downloaded the KerkyThea.  I understand there will be a learning curve.  But this seemed a little clunky.  Thea Render has different versions.  Which to use? 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

Nice Work Rene.... I guess that is Thea or Lumion though ? 

 

M.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

Rene - Absolutely Stunning Work!

 

That's worth more than $6,000. I hope the client appreciated the skill/expertise and time you put into that.

Thanks Graham and Matt as always. I have showcased that project elsewhere I believe, it seemed a relevant project for pricing.

Melissa, something to keep in mind, most people are perfectly fine with CA raytracing or renders. It's all in the demand and value. I am very fast with my techniques and am now profitable after years of NOT being profitable as a rendering artist. Additionally, it provides marketing material for you as a brand, I own rights to most of what I have rendered over the years.

Most renders are built into the budget for planset's and design as an additional service, as the design gets you 80% of the way toward a good render.

This particular project was used to sell a home before it was built, as most high-end renders tend to be geared toward development phases.

The software I use is Thea Render Standalone Studio 5. I wish I had the time to re-learn Sketchup as it is compatible with Thea's latest add-on rendering package.

I can produce a pho-realistic renderings in a few hours, but I would consider myself a power user with a large bag of tricks...and I was diligent in my VERY frustrating pursuit of learning the software. I still encourage everyone to give it a go, it's thrilling to see it all come together.

 

[Seafield]

THEA RENDER (not KerkyThea) no longer has a studio version, just plugins. If you have Sketchup, then the Thea plugin will work through it.

Another renderer is VRAY, also as a plugin for Sktechup, as well as a little gem called RAYLECTRON (simple and very powerful).

TWILIGHT RENDER too, is also a plugin for Sketchup. 3DS is the best way to transfer a model to Sketchup, in my experience.

 

ARTLANTIS can be accessed directly through 3DS, as well as MAXWELL RENDER and SIMLAB COMPOSER (affordable and quite clean).

As I mentioned to you earlier today, UNITY3D or UNREAL ENGINE 4 are real-time engines, and unlike LUMION, are free.

Realtime seems to be where the industry is going, including OCTANE for Unity.

 

As is very clear on current forum threads, materials are a very big deal to get right---along with light. In the case of all 3rd party renderers, sky HDRI's are essential (Peter Guthrie/HDRMAPS), and there are huge sources available for 3D entourage (LAUBWERK, XFROG, etc.)

 

I am just starting myself, so I agree, lots to learn about rendering....:)

 

PS. I modelled the house in CA, modelled and brought in the hood from SKP, took the completed model over to SKP (via 3ds), put in shrubs by LAUBWERK and then rendered 

in THEA. I used an early morning sky from HDRMAPS. CA geometry is solid: just great to work with.

[Renerabbitt]

5 minutes ago, Seafield said:

THEA RENDER (not KerkyThea) no longer has a studio version, just plugins. If you have Sketchup, then the Thea plugin will work through it.

 

To edit and respond, Thea Standalone Studio 1.5.08 is available still and is the current plugin version for sketchup...though I would encourage anyone looking to learn to use the sketchup version as it will likely get continued development.

and as David mentioned, materials play a huge part no matter the software you use. Normals/Bump/Roughness/Diffuse etc. maps make all the difference in render quality. 

HDR spherical backdrops and image based lighting/reflective maps as David mentioned can really bring a project to life as well. 

Main problem with chief's models are the sharpness of edges(joinery too precise). I always have eased edge moldings on cabinets etc. to soften everything up.

The very tangible benefit to external rendering programs (as opposed to the biased benefit of quality) is that you can closely replicate colors and lumens as well as regional daylight and how they correspond with each other.  Which can vastly help development issues with lighting and shadows.

Check out some of the tutorials Graham and I(and others) have posted in the tips and techniques boards for CA based rendering.

[Seafield]

I went on the Thea forum and took a screen capture of the particular thread in regard to the unavailability of Thea Studio. Happy to defer, Rene, if I got things wrong.

 - Very sophisticated thinking to be concerned about CA edges in renderings. Something more for me to learn about and factor in, for sure.....!

Cheers.

David

 

 

[Renerabbitt]

13 minutes ago, Seafield said:

I went on the Thea forum and took a screen capture of the particular thread in regard to the unavailability of Thea Studio. Happy to defer, Rene, if I got things wrong.

 - Very sophisticated thinking to be concerned about CA edges in renderings. Something more for me to learn about and factor in, for sure.....!

Cheers.

David

 

 

I stand corrected..seems I may be forced to re-learn sketchup, thanks David

[Seafield]

I use SKP all the time as an adjunct to CA. However, now I realize I could try to find SKP plugins that soften edges and do so to a CA model in SKP prior to rendering. 

Good 'heads up'.

Thanks.

David

 

 

[Renerabbitt]

7 minutes ago, Seafield said:

I use SKP all the time as an adjunct to CA. However, now I realize I could try to find SKP plugins that soften edges and do so to a CA model in SKP prior to rendering. 

Good 'heads up'.

Thanks.

David

 

 

Certainly, I've logged a ton of hours in Thea, so many tricks to be had. The two major game changers for me were learning to use channel masks w/object layers and learning to use Presto AO in lieu of MC. For instance, that first render was broken into 6 renders and then pieced together, cutting render time from 17 hours with two machine to 1.5 hours with one

[Seafield]

OK, now it is VERY clear how much I have to learn. Back to the Thea manual and videos once more, I guess......:)

Thanks, Rene.

 

[rispgiu]

6 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

 

Melissa, 

Tagging on to what Graham said above, LOD(Level of Detail) is a huge part of this. I typically offer 3 levels for exterior work: stock Chied 3d views for conceptual, Thea render views for color picking and geo-location based environment lighting, and a 3rd level thats all of the bells and whistles with landscaping etc.

Interior LOD includes bare rooms, stock entourage, or custom entourage.

I charge $1k to produce as-builts which include true wall dimensions, footing/foundation details and roof framing etc.(A complete home...which is rarely ever needed to produce plansets.)

The following home I charged $6k to produce from lines on paper to a fully realized home:

this included custom modelling and furniture importing/creating

final package was about 12 images and a PDF of the bare floor plan for furniture layout.

The background image is the actual view of the back property.

all of the colors are sampled from their respective vendors, and textures had to be created to match existing floor and cabinet finishes.

Faucets were created to match existing as well as some plants were created.

This particular job was rushed, so a lot of post processing had to be done instead of doing the work in the modelling program, which brings up mistakes.(like some of the fireflies you see and joinery not being perfect. or plants looking incorrect.)

I never provide rendering quotes based on sq.ft. the variables are too many. I have to bid the job based on my experience of how long it takes me to work a scene.

hope this helps

 

These look great!

[pgjacob]

Thanks again to all the replies.  I am now understanding these levels of products.  Like the guy that I originally referred to is going to be happy with a CA render, one or two views for a flyer for a real estate product.  Others that are happy to pay for more views and maybe material/color testing still using CA, and then the higher level of photo realistic images, for which I will need to invest some time.  This has all been very helpful, and I have begun to delve into the latter, with my tail in between my legs.... seeing others expertise is daunting, but I do enjoy this enough to try.

melissa

 

[Renerabbitt]

15 hours ago, pgjacob said:

Thanks again to all the replies.  I am now understanding these levels of products.  Like the guy that I originally referred to is going to be happy with a CA render, one or two views for a flyer for a real estate product.  Others that are happy to pay for more views and maybe material/color testing still using CA, and then the higher level of photo realistic images, for which I will need to invest some time.  This has all been very helpful, and I have begun to delve into the latter, with my tail in between my legs.... seeing others expertise is daunting, but I do enjoy this enough to try.

melissa

 

 

There are plenty of people in this community willing to help, I think everyone hear sees the value in pushing the community forward as their is very little localized peer-to-peer competition in this market. I LOVE seeing new ideas and talents!

Good luck

[joey_martin]

Are you doing all the modeling as well as the renderings?

 

I am sure the builder thought that anything above free was too much...in my experience.