Brick Sill

[Designer1]

On 2/6/2018 at 10:03 AM, tommy1 said:

Yes, I too have a large library for lintels. I do a lot of historical homes and lintels for different looks.

Has anyone noticed any changes with your library of sills and moldings in X11?  I posted some pictures from past versions of chief above but the same molding looks nothing like it in X11. Tommy, did you create yours custom in chief?

 

[tommy1]

5 hours ago, Designer1 said:

Has anyone noticed any changes with your library of sills and moldings in X11?  I posted some pictures from past versions of chief above but the same molding looks nothing like it in X11. Tommy, did you create yours custom in chief?

 

If you mean the brick ledge profile, yes. Still use it. Made it many moons ago.

[Designer1]

Tommy, has your brick ledge changed the way it looks in 3d in x11?  The brick ledge posted above is the same one I used back when I first started this post over a year ago.  Im not sure why it doesn't even appear to be the same thing just a cement block for a ledge.  Im just trying to figure out what happened to it all. 

[tommy1]

No. Just used it.

[Designer1]

Hmm interesting.  Well I messaged tech support to see if its a computer thing or maybe my symbol is outdated and time for me to make another one.  I'll see what they say. 

[tommy1]

The brick profile I'm using is one I made maybe in V10. The profile should have nothing to do with it. It's a molding profile.

[tommy1]

BTW Chad, I have several brick ledge profiles that I use for different situations.

[Designer1]

Tommy, I just remade a new brick sill in X11 and had the same results. The 3d sill molding worked ok in X10 but not in X11.   I sent it into chief and they too were having the same results I was and are looking into it further.  Are the brick moldings your using able to be used by selecting the 3d custom molding from the sill dbx in the window profile?  Im curious to how yours is working and mine is not.

[Kbird1]

2 hours ago, Designer1 said:

Tommy, I just remade a new brick sill in X11 and had the same results. The 3d sill molding worked ok in X10 but not in X11.   I sent it into chief and they too were having the same results I was and are looking into it further.  Are the brick moldings your using able to be used by selecting the 3d custom molding from the sill dbx in the window profile?  Im curious to how yours is working and mine is not.

 

I saw another report of Sills not working Correctly in X11 too , so it maybe nothing you are doing , there appears to be a new bug they are trying to sort out....

 

But without a Plan ...who knows....

 

M.

[Designer1]

Eric, I posted several pictures of the brick sill molding starting from post one from page one to page two with updated pictures.  I didnt post a plan because I figured it wasnt a plan issue it was an X11 issue as the sills have been working fine from like X3-X10.  To alleviate any questions that it might be the molding, I started a completely fresh 3d molding within X11 the same way I constructed the old brick sill molding and the results were the same, the molding didnt turn out in X11.

[glennw]

The differences you are seeing could be controlled by different window settings in each version.

The Recessed Into Wall setting affects whether the sill builds on the outside skin of the wall, or cuts the outer wall layers back to the main or layer or sheathing layer.

The Apron setting can also affect things.

 

Eric,

It looks like you have Recessed checked for both those windows.

If you uncheck Recessed, the sill will sit on the outside surface of the wall.

 

Chad,

The Recessed option should do what you want.

Can you post a simple plan (even though you don't think it is a plan issue)?

 

 

[Designer1]

Tech support got back to me and its a 3d issue with the 3d moldings apparently. This is why it worked in X10 and below but X11 having issues with 3d sills. 

 

Eric, heres the example Im talking about.  Same exact 3d molding in X10 and then X11.  I even went and built a brand new sill in X11, thinking it might have been an old molding issue but it has the same results as seen here.  The molding featured in the X10 picture is what Im trying to get in X11.  All previous versions from X10 back the molding has always worked with the same results as the X10 picture.

 

Hopefully the X11 full release update will remedy this problem.  I know you can manually go to each window and probably do a molding polyline to make the sill look similar but it will take a lot more tinkering.

[glennw]

Eric,

I believe that Chad is talking about a Symbol Molding.

For those that don't know, a Symbol Molding is a 3D symbol object that can be repeated along a path.

It is created by using the Molding option when you create a symbol.

As opposed to an extruded 2D shape - which would be the more common way to do sills. 

I have sent this in a s a bug report - I think this is the same as what Chad is showing.

In X10 and earlier, sill Symbol Moldings are represented well and work without problem.

In X11 the Symbol Molding displays as a square box - without any slope or shape that may have been included in the original Symbol Molding.

 

This is in X10:

 

This is the same Symbol Molding in X11:

 

 

[tommy1]

10 hours ago, solver said:

 

What is a 3d molding?

 

There are molding profiles, molding polylines, 3D molding polylines, and symbol moldings.

 

Are you referring to one of these or something different?

 

Everything I've shown above is a molding profile applied via the window dialog.

This is what I'm using, molding profile via the window dialog. This is why I said I'm having no problems. Just looked at it in a cross section and looked fine.

[Designer1]

Yes, mine was a 3d symbol brick sill that was turned into a 3d molding that was applied to the window sill.  Hopefully this will get remedied in the next release.

[glennw]

Quote

This is what I'm using, molding profile via the window dialog. This is why I said I'm having no problems. Just looked at it in a cross section and looked fine.

Tommy,

A molding profile is different than a Symbol Molding.

It is the Symbol Molding that is causing the problem - not the molding profile.

 

[Designer1]

17 hours ago, tommy1 said:

This is what I'm using, molding profile via the window dialog. This is why I said I'm having no problems. Just looked at it in a cross section and looked fine.

Tommy, if your using a molding profile, how does the molding look in 3d?  Does it have the brick detail in the sill?  If so how did you go about creating this?

 

I followed chiefs tutorial back in the day using a brick and mortar and turned it into a 3d molding symbol.

[glennw]

Chad,

You can go the Symbol Molding route, or what is easier, is to use the "Course" brick materials.

In these pics, the wall is Red Brick and the sill is Red Course Brick.

You will probably have to rotate the material's pattern to 0deg (defult is 90deg) to get the sill to look correct in vector view.

 

[tommy1]

12 hours ago, glennw said:

Tommy,

A molding profile is different than a Symbol Molding.

It is the Symbol Molding that is causing the problem - not the molding profile.

 

I understand that.

8 hours ago, Designer1 said:

Tommy, if your using a molding profile, how does the molding look in 3d?  Does it have the brick detail in the sill?  If so how did you go about creating this?

 

I followed chiefs tutorial back in the day using a brick and mortar and turned it into a 3d molding symbol.

It looks fine in 3D. I'll post something later. Basically I have to do it as Glenn describes. Need to leave to meet an engineer.

[tommy1]

10 hours ago, Designer1 said:

Tommy, if your using a molding profile, how does the molding look in 3d?  Does it have the brick detail in the sill?  If so how did you go about creating this?

 

I followed chiefs tutorial back in the day using a brick and mortar and turned it into a 3d molding symbol.

Chad, I'm using a "molding profile". My profiles were made many years ago. Not using 3D moldings, symbols or whatever. I have it recessed to sheathing. I did this in X11.

 

[Designer1]

I guess its optimal to evaluate different ways to do this.  Back when, the only way you could really see a good 3d brick sill was creating a 3d symbol and turning it into a molding.  Im unclear how a molding profile is able to accomplish this 3d accuracy using only a profile.  Looks like I might want to do some digging into different molding and profile options.

 

Tommy, if you care to share more about how you created it and perhaps your experience using molding profiles vs. 3d symbols turned 3d moldings that might be helpful for any of us not familiar.  Thanks!

[SNestor]

You should watch the two videos I posted about brick sill.  Might help...see this post. 

 

[tommy1]

39 minutes ago, Designer1 said:

I guess its optimal to evaluate different ways to do this.  Back when, the only way you could really see a good 3d brick sill was creating a 3d symbol and turning it into a molding.  Im unclear how a molding profile is able to accomplish this 3d accuracy using only a profile.  Looks like I might want to do some digging into different molding and profile options.

 

Tommy, if you care to share more about how you created it and perhaps your experience using molding profiles vs. 3d symbols turned 3d moldings that might be helpful for any of us not familiar.  Thanks!

Chad, it's already been shown in a video posted here on how I made it (them). I made them as shown years ago. For me, it's the easiest way to do this. I realize that apparently there's a problem in X11 with using 3D moldings. With that said, I would recommend using molding profiles and add them in the window dbx. It may be a long time before this is fixed or maybe never. There's a couple of things that have been acknowledged by CA that is not right that I complained about and still hasn't been fixed after years of complaining so I just do what I have to get the job done. The more people that complain about this not working right MIGHT get it fixed. I have no reason to use 3D moldings when the molding profile works just fine for me and because it looks like it doesn't even work right in X11.

[Designer1]

Steve, thanks for posting the video, it was very insightful to the problems were all having with X11.  You have come up with some solutions that were great.  Yes, once seeing what you were talking about in the video Im familiar with this method and if you have the correct textures to apply like the course brick it can look great. 

 

My only issue with chief is these inconsistencies that you had pointed out really need to be fixed.  If users have to run around altering the vector texture and changing the profile shape to fill in the gaps chief creates at the bottom of the sill, it makes the software less professional.  Im sure chief will fix these items given its the beta version but small instances like this that create extra work for users makes new users experience chief and say its not as professional of software compared to revit. I obviously like Chief given Ive been using it since version 9 but these little kinks should be worked out.

 

Thanks for giving us a few ideas of workarounds until chief updates X11 and fixes some of these problems.

[tommy1]

7 minutes ago, Designer1 said:

Thanks for giving us a few ideas of workarounds until chief updates X11 and fixes some of these problems.

Chad, I don't look at using the molding profile as a workaround. It's used through the window dbx. I actually look at the 3d molding poly line as the work around. I know, I know, people will disagree but that's okay. IMO, either way it's fine as long as it works.