Roof Soffits and Auto roof retuns

[GMTinc]

I am having problems with roof soffits and roof returns:

• If I generate a soffit.  it is too low (see snip)
• If I generate roof returns and use a frieze, the frieze is also too low and the gable end frieze does not member with the eave frieze, by a small amount.

I have made an example which just shows the soffit issue in the gable.  Note I turned off soffits for an adjacent gable but the  brick veneer is still cut low as with the other gable.  I eliminated friezes in the example to make a clearer example.  I have had the issues with the frieze height in the past and only cured it by manually adding frieze trim in the gables and eaves.  This example will not allow even that as the veneer, at best, is cut too low.  I have checked the sub-fascia and roof thickness setting and do not see that there should be a problem, but I suspect it lies there somewhere.  In this example I made roof layers of 9.25 and .625 for the roof and the sub-fascias are 5.5"

 

Anyway all help is appreciated.   I would like to generate all this, as intended, using the automatic returns but the alignment is the issue there, so any suggestions on that end are also appreciated.

[Mark3D]

share the plan file it will get you a quicker awnser

[DavidJPotter]

In your posted image I do not clearly see what you describe in your post. I do see an incomplete roof system auto generating unwanted artifacts because in is not finished and joined. Explain some more and post an example plan please, we all still want to help.

 

DJP

[johnny]

Id bet money your roof framing materials aren't set correctly.  However, as others say posting your plan is key.

[GMTinc]

I am attaching the plan file, as well as another snip.

 

The snip more clearly shows the problems.  I put the soffits, returns and frieze back in to highlight what I was saying.  You will note the difference in elevation between the frieze at the eave and that at the eave.  Also, despite being selected, the frieze does not show in the gable and the soffit is obviously low there.  The adjacent roof shows not frieze even though it is selected in the wall and roof dialogs.

 

The plan is only partially started.  It, as I also indicated, is likely due to some framing setting (at least the soffit issue).  I looked at some training videos that indicated, as I interpreted it, the subfacia of the eave and rake had to be the same size????  I don't understand the logic of that, but, if it is necessary, as with much software, the logic is moot.

Guerra Preliminary 1.plan

[GMTinc]

I appreciate the help, I truly do; however, you will have to excuse my obvious ignorance.  I attempted to change my framing from 1/2".  I could not find anything set at 1/2".  I did make sure that my roof structure was set at 9 1/4" and the surface at 5/8",  This in a perhaps misguided attempt to show rafter and roof thickness (I had included three layers in the previously sent file for surface, rafter and ceiling, which was likely wrong).  I made sure all sub-fascia' s and fascia's were set to the same size.  I rebuilt the roof planes with the following results:

 

• The frieze still does not generate in the gables or on some of the eaves, as before.
• The frieze under the roof return is now 3in higher than that on the eave as opposed to 2in lower as in the file sent.
• The gable soffits are 12in lower than the bottom of the fascia, as before
• The eave soffits do not exist on some eaves, also as before

 I am a long time use of Chief, but I have refrained from using 3d views.  Despite any efforts I can make, there are always problems.  Usually unwanted artifacts but also such instances as this.  Still, I have slowly tried to become at least partially proficient, mainly because Chief has brought more capability to show detail as the versions have gone by.  One of the problems I have with most software is that generally getting what you want, at some point, requires some arcane "fix".  How the above settings or, as indicated a single setting like "your framing is set to 1/2"", can possibly generate or cause the above problems is beyond me.  I am obviously frustrated here and I freely admit my own ignorance and inability is likely the root cause of my problems; however, in all the reference material, help features, training videos and, unfortunately, topics in this forum, I find nothing to guide me in this situation.  Of course, this obviously means that I must be the only one having this problem.

 

At any rate, I appreciate the consideration here.  If upon review of the above anyone has a viable solution, I would welcome your input.  If you rather avoid it, I can understand that too.  So would I, but...............

[GeneDavis]

Go back and change your roof structures so that SURFACE is two layers, shingles and sheathing, then your STRUCTURE is one layer only, material defined as fir framing, and thickness whatever your rafters should be.

 

Where does all the insulation air gap come from?  Why are you using that in roof structure?

[GMTinc]

I had already made that structural change prior to the last post, as indicated in that post.  Insulation air gap?  Not aware of it.

[Chopsaw]

Hope this helps.  

 

 

[DavidJPotter]

Great job Chop! Chop's video should underline an important understanding for you in that Settings control everything in Chief. If your settings are wrongly set or guessed at (like it appears you did some of that) you get problems and wasted time. Take the time to really study and practice with Chief off your production time so you do not continually waste time guessing. It took me over a year back in 1995 to really do this myself but it makes a vast difference to Know as opposed to hope for the best.

 

New users need to fully understand the Chief is not a problem solver, it is a wonderfully crafted mechanical aid but has no intelligence, judgement or experience. Only you can provide these vitally important factors to get your work done.

 

DJP

[GMTinc]

I apologize for being so late in replying.  Chop....your fix worked....almost.  I still have a couple of issues.  I have an artifact gutter at the ceiling of the 2nd floor, on the right gable where the exterior wall extends over the lower roof.  I also have no frieze on the eave over the garage doors.  On this latter, I am guessing it is because I extended the eave of that roof plane down in one area.  I am attaching the revised plan.

 

I want to offer my sincere thanks to everyone that responded and particularly to Chop for taking the time and effort to produce a video to explain my problem.  I still am unable to conceive how that particular fix resolved the problem, but it does.  I would not live long enough to make such a correlation.  As I had mentioned, I have never used the 3d aspect of CA to any real degree.  It is too difficult to get all the detail I normally need for projects and winds up descending into a morass of "fixes" which never quite get what is needed.  This particular project is very simple and therefore one I thought would be a good one for me to learn more about developing my CA 3d skills.  I am mostly retired and am somewhat of an anachronism as I hand drafted most of my career...for the reasons stated above.  I started with CA v4 and only used it to develop floorplans.  CA has come a long way and is, IMO, unquestionably the best drafting program out there.  The CAD tools, which I do much of my work with, are unparalleled in their ease of use.  The interface, and editing abilities,  uniquely is the best to actually "design" with, as most CAD programs virtually demand the design be done and then drawn in CAD, at least practically.  Some versions ago I was finally able to produce the details I needed, fully in CA and I can only thank the efforts of the CA development team.

 

I will continue to work on my 3d skills.  As with this issue, most of my problems come from not fully setting up all parameters before beginning the design.  Some are niggling like not have the right textures set (the air gap as opposed to framing) and others are still bewildering to me, like finding multiple places to set things and how setting affect things which have no obvious connection, at least to me.

 

Thanks again, and Chop....I owe you one.

Guerra Template 2.plan

[GMTinc]

Actually it does.  The fix was to eliminate the three layers I had in roof structure, to one.  I did that at all settings.  That made the ridiculous soffits appear correctly; however it did not solve all the frieze issues.  By eliminating those two layers of roof structure, I changed the roof structure to be 1.25" less, but, that, to me, does not reasonably explain why the program, prior to that change, had generated soffits that were 12" lower than after the adjustment?????

 

There are two different ceiling hts. and one lower eave ht.  If you let the program autobuild roofs in that configuration you just get a mess.  Unless all eaves and ceilings are level, it is not always a good start to use auto build

 

you are right about the 2nd floor.  I really need that to have a second floor plan.

 

I would agree that the more accurate the model the more accurate the 3d; however that does not account for "fixes" that are not straight forward and included in any CA reference material, needing to also be in place.

 

One of the reference videos indicated that that subfascia;s for rake and eave needed to be the same.  That is asinine in terms of real world building, but I found it part of the fix.  I had also made the fascia the same in attempting to resolve my original issue.  Actually, the frieze generated, where it decided to generate at all, correctly with those settings.

 

The shadow board moldings were the only thing that DID generate correctly and in all places and from the very beginning.  If everything else had worked that well I would not have had a problem.

 

None of this addresses the issues I still have.

 

Thank you, but once again, even with a relatively simple design, it does not take much variation to make CA 3d problematic.....Unless you have the secrets to all the fixes.  I have no question that there are many CA users that would have little or no problem with this.  I see wonderful examples.  I know how to build and how to design and have over 60 years of experience at both, but I just may be too stupid to use all the CA functions properly.