Automatic Wall Framing

[mydog8it]

I don't typically do wall framing plans and haven't used the auto wall framing tool before. Does anyone know why it would frame 2 corners of a rectangular building with a normal California corner, and the other two like the second image? 

[Kbird1]

Bug ? .....I have noticed that myself a few times , and I think I just clicked on the extra studs and deleted them...

 

 

[mydog8it]

Thanks. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

Sidenote: The crazy off-center non-symmetrical spacing of wall studs at the corners and around/over openings is killing me.

[Kbird1]

Are you using X9 ?  not sure if I have seen that "bug" since I upgraded , now I think of it  , at least a test box house I just drew is the same at all 4 corners...

 

AFAIK if you put in framing reference markers/points you can set the framing layout per your needs , I don't usually as a Framer won't look at it anyway in my experience.

 

 

[mydog8it]

This plan is in X8. I haven't downloaded X9  yet...I really need to get on that before X10 comes out. lol

 

Thanks for the tip on the framing reference points. I've already moved/aligned/centered everything on this one, but I'll check it out if I have to do a wall framing plan again. I don't do them for the same reason-framers won't even bother to look at it. 

[glennw]

 

 

Not a bug, but a feature!

Try Default Settings...Framing Defaults...Wall...Miter Ends of Angled Walls...Horizontal Frame Through.

Uncheck Horizontal Frame Through.

[mydog8it]

5 minutes ago, glennw said:

Try Default Settings...Framing Defaults...Wall...Miter Ends of Angled Walls...Horizontal Frame Through.

Uncheck Horizontal Frame Through.

Interesting - I had it unchecked, but I just tested it again and checking that box fixed it.

It also rotated all of the corners.

Thanks

[Alaskan_Son]

 

On 6/29/2017 at 9:47 PM, glennw said:

 

 

Not a bug, but a feature!

Try Default Settings...Framing Defaults...Wall...Miter Ends of Angled Walls...Horizontal Frame Through.

Uncheck Horizontal Frame Through.

 

On 6/29/2017 at 9:56 PM, mydog8it said:

Interesting - I had it unchecked, but I just tested it again and checking that box fixed it.

It also rotated all of the corners.

Thanks

 

Sorry guys, but I don't think thats what it is.  That setting simply changes the automated corner intersection behaviour and has nothing to do with the stud layout per se.  With that setting checked, all horizontal walls are automatically framed through like this...

With the setting unchecked, all VERTICAL walls automatically frame through like this...

 

The corner framing configuration on the other hand is MOSTLY (see note below) the result of how the layout lands.  If the layout of the last stud lands somewhere over the designated spacing (24" in this case) then you get the rotated stud...

 

...If the layout of the last stud lands somewhere UNDER the designated stud spacing then you get a normal corner...

 

I'm not necessarily agreeing with the behaviour and have previously suggested some improvements in this particular area myself.  I'm just explaining how I understand it to work.

 

NOTE:  I said "MOSTLY" because the behaviour does seem to be a little inconsistent.  It does however always seem to be the result of layout landing just over or just under the set stud spacing.

[mydog8it]

Ahhh. So it only fixed it when I checked the box because when the corner changed directions, the stud spacing was different.  Thanks for the clarity.

 

I measured the spacing on the corners with extra studs, and sure enough, they are greater than 16" oc. Apparently I have to move and re-align everything again. 

[mydog8it]

Now this has me wondering - is the "frame through" typically on the load bearing walls?

Like this (cross hatch is bearing): 

 

[Kbird1]

I thought I remembered the "bug" in X7 and X8 with Corners of each kind on opposite ends of the Building/wall but not since I upgraded to X9 but I may not have been looking often enough to notice? 

 

  yep spoke too soon , must have got lucky earlier? I  just did a 2nd test house with frame through enabled per Glenn's comment and I have different framing at each end which I am thinking is caused by the direction the wall is drawn in? ie usually Clockwise around the house, however I am not sure what CA's default layout is guided by?

 

 

[glennw]

Michael,

 

Yes, I basically agree with what you are saying.

But...

3 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

If the layout of the last stud lands somewhere UNDER the designated stud spacing then you get a normal corner

I believe this is incorrect though.

PS - I could be misinterpreting what you are saying here - if so, ignore.

I think the U shaped studs occur when a wall perpendicular to the "through wall" sit over a stud in the "through wall" - even if it is under the stud spacing.

The "frame through" setting - either horizontal or vertical effects which walls get the U shaped stud arrangement.

 

It is only the "frame through" walls that can have the U shaped stud arrangement.

This can either be set in the wall framing defaults or on a wall by wall and wall end basis. (see below).

 

Quote

 

 I have different framing at each end which I am thinking is caused by the direction the wall is drawn in? ie usually Clockwise around the house, however I am not sure what CA's default layout is guided by

 

I think this only happens for 1 of 2 reasons:

1. When the "frame through" wall is sitting directly over where a stud in the perpendicular wall would be - happens sometimes.

or, more likely when

2. the Through Wall at Start or Through Wall at End have been used on an individual wall by wall and wall end basis.

This setting in individual walls will override the default setting in the Framing Defaults.

Obviously reversing the wall direction will influence the framing if either of the above settings are used.

 

By using some or all of these settings, you should be able to control the arrangement of studs in any corner.

 

Make sure auto wall framing is on before trying any of this.

 

If I could get Jing working, I would do a video.

 

[DRAWZILLA]

All I know is that Chief has needed to work on framing for a long time now, it's time for X10 please.

[mydog8it]

So, as far as best practice when actually framing the building, there would be a typical 3-stud California corner on each corner (without the "u" CA is adding), and the "frame though" would be on the bearing wall? I'd love feedback from any contractors on how this is actually done vs. rendered.

[Alaskan_Son]

I would personally want to see 4 things at an exterior corner like that...

 

1.  A stud that lands ON LAYOUT for exterior sheathing and siding reasons as well as to provide proper bearing in some circumstances.

 

2.  Drywall backing.

 

3.  Something to tie the corner together in such a way that limits movement and therefore potential drywall cracks or screw pops in the future.  

 

4.  A little less important, but access for insulation and wiring purposes.  

 

There are a good handful of alternative methods, but in my opinion Chief has chosen what I feel is the single best compromise with that rotated end stud.  

[mydog8it]

9 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I would personally want to see 4 things at an exterior corner like that...

 

1.  A stud that lands ON LAYOUT for exterior sheathing and siding reasons as well as to provide proper bearing in some circumstances.

 

2.  Drywall backing.

 

3.  Something to tie the corner together in such a way that limits movement and therefore potential drywall cracks or screw pops in the future.  

 

4.  A little less important, but access for insulation and wiring purposes.  

 

There are a good handful of alternative methods, but in my opinion Chief has chosen what I feel is the single best compromise with that rotated end stud.  

Thanks for the feedback! When you say "on layout," do you mean a stud at each edge of the shear panel?

[Alaskan_Son]

1 hour ago, mydog8it said:

Thanks for the feedback! When you say "on layout," do you mean a stud at each edge of the shear panel?

 

Yes and no.  The edge of the shear panel is where I would consider it to be most important, but it's really just the spacing in general that I'm referring to.  If for example we are framing at 24" on center, I want to have a stud at every 24" increment no matter what.  I will personally very rarely shift stud spacing for anything.  If there is no stud on layout it can cause problems for insulation, wall sheathing, wall coverings, siding, trim, and all sorts of other things. 

[glennw]

Here is the video.

I ran out of time with the 5 minute limit, but you can get the jist of it.

I forgot to mention that you can obviously only get the U shaped framing in a Frame Through wall.

 

https://www.screencast.com/t/B5IaHCRA7Kv

 

 

[DRAWZILLA]

Around here edges of shear walls require a 4x4 post or 4x6 if 2x6 studs, even in the corners. I add them manually.

[Kbird1]

7 hours ago, glennw said:

Here is the video.

I ran out of time with the 5 minute limit, but you can get the jist of it.

I forgot to mention that you can obviously only get the U shaped framing in a Frame Through wall.

 

https://www.screencast.com/t/B5IaHCRA7Kv

 

 

 

Thanks for the video Glenn , that cleared things up for me a bit better on what was happening.

 

@mydog8it

  typically around here we now use 3 stud corners due to the insulation requirements and

no U framing at Partition walls either for the same reason , just a 2x6 or 2x8 on the flat, though

I usually add a stud to Partition wall backing to stiffen so it is L shaped, and leave my layout standard.

[mydog8it]

11 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Yes and no.  The edge of the shear panel is where I would consider it to be most important, but it's really just the spacing in general that I'm referring to.  If for example we are framing at 24" on center, I want to have a stud at every 24" increment no matter what.  I will personally very rarely shift stud spacing for anything.  If there is no stud on layout it can cause problems for insulation, wall sheathing, wall coverings, siding, trim, and all sorts of other things. 

Got it. This is super helpful. Thank you!

 

31 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Thanks for the video Glenn , that cleared things up for me a bit better on what was happening.

 

@mydog8it

  typically around here we now use 3 stud corners due to the insulation requirements and

no U framing at Partition walls either for the same reason , just a 2x6 or 2x8 on the flat, though

I usually add a stud to Partition wall backing to stiffen so it is L shaped, and leave my layout standard.

Thanks- I was wondering about the partition walls, too. 

 

8 hours ago, glennw said:

Here is the video.

I ran out of time with the 5 minute limit, but you can get the jist of it.

I forgot to mention that you can obviously only get the U shaped framing in a Frame Through wall.

 

https://www.screencast.com/t/B5IaHCRA7Kv

 

 

Can't watch on my phone, but i will check this out when I'm at my desk

 

1 hour ago, DRAWZILLA said:

Around here edges of shear walls require a 4x4 post or 4x6 if 2x6 studs, even in the corners. I add them manually.

Interesting.