Design custom furniture?

[johnny]

4 hours ago, glennw said:

 

Johnny,

I think that statement is a bit of an exaggeration?

For sure you are limited in that if you draw a polysolid in plan, you can't drag its width in an elevation view (although you can drag it's height and elevation - as well as use the dbx)..

BUT in an elevation view, you can use the dbx to change the polysolid.

In a 3D view, you can shape and edit the polysolid in just about any way you want with the cursor and/or the dbx. 

 

Glenn,

 

I know there is some minor editing you can do to a poly solids in "other" views but its so basic its impractical.  Not to mention, you lose the few Boolean options completely (holes etc).   You also mention editing the poly solid in 3D but I just checked that out and I dont have editing ability in a 3d view - its about the same.  Perhaps I am missing a nuance there.

 

When you are saying in elevation mode we can use the dbx to change the polysold - you can change a few things I see, but you can't fully edit polysolid like you can in the view it was created.  I think my point is Chief has put some ridiculous restriction that i've never seen another 3d app place on editing polysolids or shapes.  In a 3d app why wouldn't you want to edit a shape in all views?  Downright bizarre if you ask me.

 

...plus the huge issue where if you piece multiple polysolids in different views and then block those solids and try to use in different places the program goes haywire many times and can't handle that for some reason. 

 

 

[glennw]

7 hours ago, johnny said:

You also mention editing the poly solid in 3D but I just checked that out and I dont have editing ability in a 3d view - its about the same.  Perhaps I am missing a nuance there.

 

Johnny,

Not quite sure what you are doing.

I draw a ploysolid in plan and generate a 3D overview.

I can drag the height (from either top or bottom), drag the width (from either side), drag the length ( from either side).

I can also use the dbx to all that and more (like making only one side longer).

Whilst still in the 3D view, I can break an edge and reshape the polysolid (like making an L shape from a square.

I can also do things like change edges to curves or splines. I can even use the Advanced Spline controls to reshape the polysolid

 

The trick (sorry - wrong word - I should have said technique) is to select the polysolid on the correct side because the edit possibilities are determined by what face you select. 

ie, select the top to stretch the plan (or move it), select a side to change the height (or move it).

The various Edit Behaviors (like Concentric, Fillet, etc) also work in a 3D view.

Are you sure that you have "Allow Edit of Polyline Solids in 3D Views" toggled on?

 

The Boolean operations work if you are using polysolids to polysolids, but not if you are mixing polysolids and solids.

In that case, you can convert the polysolid into a solid and do a solid to solid Boolean.

Once again, you have to make sure you are selecting the correct surface before doing the Boolean - usually the top surface, not the sides.

and one shortcoming is that they end up the same height - in which case, convert to solids and then do the Booleans.

 

7 hours ago, johnny said:

...plus the huge issue where if you piece multiple polysolids in different views and then block those solids and try to use in different places the program goes haywire many times and can't handle that for some reason. 

 

I'm not sure I have seen this, can you post a plan?

 

I wish I could do a quick vid, but I had trouble with Jing so I uninstalled it and now I can't even reinstall it.

If anyone has any ideas, I would welcome them.

Jing seems to be working now.

Only trouble is that I hit the 5 minute limit - but there is enough to get the idea.

 

https://www.screencast.com/t/s9UZgdJ30FmO

 

[johnny]

9 hours ago, glennw said:

 

Johnny,

Not quite sure what you are doing.

I draw a ploysolid in plan and generate a 3D overview.

I can drag the height (from either top or bottom), drag the width (from either side), drag the length ( from either side).

I can also use the dbx to all that and more (like making only one side longer).

Whilst still in the 3D view, I can break an edge and reshape the polysolid (like making an L shape from a square.

I can also do things like change edges to curves or splines. I can even use the Advanced Spline controls to reshape the polysolid

 

The trick (sorry - wrong word - I should have said technique) is to select the polysolid on the correct side because the edit possibilities are determined by what face you select. 

ie, select the top to stretch the plan (or move it), select a side to change the height (or move it).

The various Edit Behaviors (like Concentric, Fillet, etc) also work in a 3D view.

Are you sure that you have "Allow Edit of Polyline Solids in 3D Views" toggled on?

 

The Boolean operations work if you are using polysolids to polysolids, but not if you are mixing polysolids and solids.

In that case, you can convert the polysolid into a solid and do a solid to solid Boolean.

Once again, you have to make sure you are selecting the correct surface before doing the Boolean - usually the top surface, not the sides.

and one shortcoming is that they end up the same height - in which case, convert to solids and then do the Booleans.

 

I'm not sure I have seen this, can you post a plan?

 

I wish I could do a quick vid, but I had trouble with Jing so I uninstalled it and now I can't even reinstall it.

If anyone has any ideas, I would welcome them.

Jing seems to be working now.

Only trouble is that I hit the 5 minute limit - but there is enough to get the idea.

 

https://www.screencast.com/t/s9UZgdJ30FmO

 

 

Thanks Glenn - the video helped.  Although, I think the issue is the same - meaning, if you see in your example you can only really fully edit the top face (perhaps bottom too?) of the poly solid.  You cannot edit the sides except for height adjustment.

 

Does having a 3d view add to the edit-ability of a poly solid?

[glennw]

6 hours ago, johnny said:

You cannot edit the sides except for height adjustment.

 

Johnny,

 

What did you want to do to the sides?

[johnny]

6 hours ago, glennw said:

 

Johnny,

 

What did you want to do to the sides?

 

Shape them the same you do in the front - where you can break a line and then shape the poly....or do a Boolean operation  There are many, many many times i'm trying to model something and need to model from multiple directions.

 

Im kinda curious why Chief decided to limit us...

 

Last couple days i've been working on a light commercial building - but having to use Vectorworks since I felt Chief simply couldn't model some of the details the way I wanted.  Sure..it was possible, but it would have been way more difficult.

 

[glennw]

1 hour ago, johnny said:

Shape them the same you do in the front - where you can break a line and then shape the poly....or do a Boolean operation

Johnny,

Sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

Isn't that what I did in the vid?

[johnny]

3 minutes ago, glennw said:

Johnny,

Sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

Isn't that what I did in the vid?

 

Unless I am missing something, it appears in your video you only truly break and change the top surface - as if you are looking down on the poly solid from plan view.  You dont ever modify the sides themselves - right? 

[glennw]

Are you saying that you want other than vertical sides.

If so, no, you can't do that.

A Polyline Solid is really just an extruded polyline face and as such, the sides will always be vertical.

The above terminology is assuming that you have drawn the polyline in plan view.

Likewise, you can't have different heights - the top and bottom have to be flat. That's why when you do a Boolean of 2 Polysolids with different height, you always end up with them being the same height.

 

If you more, then you are using the wrong tool. 

 

Remember that polysolids are relative to the view that you draw them in, although I am sure that you already know that.

[TheKitchenAbode]

7 hours ago, johnny said:

 

Shape them the same you do in the front - where you can break a line and then shape the poly....or do a Boolean operation  There are many, many many times i'm trying to model something and need to model from multiple directions.

 

Im kinda curious why Chief decided to limit us...

 

Last couple days i've been working on a light commercial building - but having to use Vectorworks since I felt Chief simply couldn't model some of the details the way I wanted.  Sure..it was possible, but it would have been way more difficult.

 

 

Just out of interest, from the pic you posted, what element is there that posed such a challenge to do in Chief.

[tommy1]

It's fascinating to see what can be done with this program!

[yusuf-333]

12 hours ago, johnny said:

 

Shape them the same you do in the front - where you can break a line and then shape the poly....or do a Boolean operation  There are many, many many times i'm trying to model something and need to model from multiple directions.

 

Im kinda curious why Chief decided to limit us...

 

Last couple days i've been working on a light commercial building - but having to use Vectorworks since I felt Chief simply couldn't model some of the details the way I wanted.  Sure..it was possible, but it would have been way more difficult.

 

Hey Johhny

Nice work, here is also a crappy model I gone with chief, can make more pretty but simply to show the possibility.

 

Parts I put together were pretty easy using p solids. 

 

[johnny]

5 hours ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

Just out of interest, from the pic you posted, what element is there that posed such a challenge to do in Chief.

 

Those flying buttresses being BIM accurate (meaning can pull details right from the model) would be a pain in Chief.  I speak from experience I had with a similar project where I had all sorts of issues (see below) but I did finish in Chief.  When you have multiple parts and need to group/block items made in different views Chief doesn't handle that well.

 

Not to mention, since Chief has no instancing all the duplicated resources have to be changed 1 at a time if adjustments are needed.

 

 

[johnny]

43 minutes ago, yusuf-333 said:

Hey Johhny

Nice work, here is also a crappy model I gone with chief, can make more pretty but simply to show the possibility.

 

Parts I put together were pretty easy using p solids. 

 

 

Thanks - and yeah, I know it can be done in Chief, but it would take substantially longer and more frustration.  Then on top of it, changing or adjusting 1 later would require manually changing the rest.

 

The buttresses I have modeled in Vectorworks are BIM/detail accurate - so the connectors are all correct and detail-able from the model.  I can double click each area and it isolates that component for me graying out the rest of the model.  Very important features when modeling these sorts of elements.

[TheKitchenAbode]

Johnny - What is the purpose of this discussion, no matter what solution we attempt to provide, you either find a problem with it or you find something else that CA can't do. My suggestion is that you use Vectorworks and 3Ds or whatever and let it be.

[johnny]

25 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

Johnny - What is the purpose of this discussion, no matter what solution we attempt to provide, you either find a problem with it or you find something else that CA can't do. My suggestion is that you use Vectorworks and 3Ds or whatever and let it be.

 

Graham - you keep trying to actively defend Chief and its lack of ability, and we have a system of me making a statement, you challenging it, and then me following back up with a response.  This discussion isn't about leaving things be with Chief and using another app.  There are many things about Chief specific to residential that appeals to me and its a useful tool.

 

That said, in the course of discussion on the forum I don't want Chief to think everything is great with their shape modeling.  I want them to read threads like this and seek to improve their tools.  Massively overstating the ability of Chief doesn't seem helpful to new users, or Chief itself.

[TheKitchenAbode]

1 minute ago, johnny said:

 

Graham - you keep trying to actively defend Chief and its lack of ability, and we have a system of me making a statement, you challenging it, and then me following back up with a response.  This discussion isn't about leaving things be with Chief and using another app.  There are many things about Chief specific to residential that appeals to me and its a useful tool.

 

Hi Johnny - Trust me, my position is not to defend CA until death. I do not disagree with you about the shortcomings/limitations or that there are some weird workarounds that have to be figure out and that there are just some things, like BIM, that can't be done. I can't do anything about that and fortunately for myself those things don't really interfere with the type of work that I use CA for. There are many software choices out there and they all have their pro's and con's. What is the perfect software solution, it's the one that does the things you need it to do, and that of course varies according to each individuals specific needs.